Dear Joe and Kathy,
Thanks for writing. I'm happy to
see that you want to take an objective
look at the Catholic Church. That
is the spirit of True Ecumenism.
It is one thing to have differences
and respect one another; it is quite
another to misrepresent each others
position and level charges based
on distortion. Sadly, the latter
has been the case for close to five
centuries. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says, where there is division,
there is sin by individuals on both
sides.
You might start by getting
a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church which
was recently published. If you can't
find one then by all means, let me
know and I'll send you one, provided
you want to give out your address.
The issue of the Papacy is not just
founded on one text in Scripture.
For example, in the text you mentioned,
Jesus gives Peter the keys of the
Kingdom.
He is speaking in the singular — apparent in the original Greek text
of the manuscript.
This would have meant something very
unique to the Jewish readers of Matthew's
Gospel. Jesus is actually drawing
on a text from Isaiah 22 where the
meaning of the keys or key is much
clearer. Jesus uses very similar
language in Matthew 16 when he renames
Simon's name to Peter.
Peter is almost always mentioned
first in the list of the Apostles.
He is the first to receive non-Jews in
the Church (Read Acts 10.) He is also
the one who settles the matter at
the Jerusalem Council (Read Acts 15.)
and so on.
As for extra biblical evidence, it
is overwhelming as well.
We start with the letter of Clement
to Corinth written around 80 A.D.
Clement was the bishop
of Rome.
The Church in Corinth had deposed
its bishop, Clement stepped in and
addressed the issue. Interestingly
enough John, the Apostle, was living
at the time and was much closer to
the situation. Nevertheless, John
did not take it upon himself to interfere
with another diocese, but the Bishop
of Rome did, because he was Peter's
successor and had the authority.
Here are just a few of the early
(Christian writings|writers) that
speak of Rome's Primacy and authority:
- Shepherd of Hermas — 140 A.D.
- St. Polycarp of Ephesus — 125-190
A.D.
- Cyprian of Carthage — 250 A.D.
- St. Irenaeus Lyons — 140-202
A.D.
In his treatise against heresies,
St. Irenaeus asserts the authority
of Rome several times.
And the list goes on and on.
Notice two things. One: most of these men's writings
weren't Popes; they, in fact,
were written from other dioceses.
Two: look at the dates of these writings. The standard Protestant line is that
the Catholic Church did not come
into being until after Constantine
made it the state religion, but these
writers were writing during the persecution.
Some of them wrote over two centuries
before Constantine. They were dying
to keep the purity of the faith.
- Why would they pollute the faith
by supporting the papacy if it
had not been part of the faith
from the very beginning?
Further, these men handed down the
faith to men, who at the end of the
fourth century, would canonize the
Bible. From this we see several things:
- The Church was operating on
what Scriptures and tradition
they had in union with Rome from
the beginning.
- This same Church that gave us
the Bible back then (in 382 A.D.),
gave us the Bible in the form
we have it to this day.
- These men would never have included
books in the Bible if they believed
they contradicted what they already
believed had been handed down
to them, by their predecessor bishops going all
the way back to the Apostles.
The conclusion to all this is that
if, as an Evangelical, you accept
the Bible, then you are de-facto
accepting the authority of the Church
in union with the Pope to discern
the New Testament which we have in
common. After all, the New Testament
itself does not give you an inspired
list of books. Instead, it had to
be an infallible Church which gave
you the list; otherwise you have
a fallible list
of infallible books
which makes no philosophical sense.
Along with the Catechism, I highly
recommend a three-book set called Faith of the Early Fathers by William
Jurgens. It's not cheap, around $50.,
but it's a lot cheaper then buying all the works of the Early Church
Fathers. This set has all the quotes (in
context, of course) which serve
as proof of the Early Church's Faith.
Now let's talk about Mary.
The Church teaches that Mary was
preserved from original sin by a
particular grace on the basis of
what Christ was going to do on the
Cross. In other words, Mary was saved
before she had a chance to fall.
Being preserved from the stain of
original sin, she then continued
her life remaining sinless, again, by
Grace, not by her own nature.
This is not unreasonable. Adam and
Eve, like Mary, were both born without original
sin.
Although they could have remained
(immaculate|sinless), Adam and Eve,
by their true free will, chose to
sin.
- Now where do we Catholics get
this from Scripture?
Well, let us start by looking at
the text you mentioned. Mary is called full
of Grace. Notice Gabriel does not
say: Hail Mary you are Full of Grace.
He calls her full of Grace,
as if to name her.
In Luke, the Angel says Hail Full
of Grace. The Greek reads:
Chairo ( Khah"-ee -ro )
Charitoo ( Khar-ee-to'-o )
The first word Chairo is not
like going up to some one and saying, yo
what's up. It's a greeting
reserved for royalty.
(Charitoo|full of grace) in
this form, actually means one has
been perfected by Grace.
This is exactly the Catholic position.
But now let's go back to Genesis.
15 And I will put enmity between
you and the woman, and between
your seed and her Seed; he shall
bruise your head, and you shall
bruise His heel.
Genesis 3:15 |
Notice that God promises that someday
there will be a woman whose seed
will defeat satan
(the serpent), but notice
God also says He will put enmity between
the woman and the serpent.
The Hebrew word for enmity, eybah (ay-baw);
means a
total state of war not sharing anything
in common. Well, whoever this
woman is, she is not going to share
anything in common with satan. While
many are saved and are at war with
satan, we do have sin in common with
him.
For this reason, this woman
will have to be sinless.
Let's look at the two verses in the
Scriptures where Jesus is talking
directly to His mother:
4 Jesus said to her, "Woman,
what does your concern have to
do with Me? My hour has not yet
come."
John 2:4
26 When Jesus therefore saw His
mother, and the disciple whom
He loved standing by, He said
to His mother, "Woman, behold
your son!"
John 19:26 |
Hmmm!! Now Jesus was a good Jewish
boy.
- He knew the Ten Commandments and would not break them by talking to
His mother with a disrespectful tone, would He?
He doesn't call her Mom, or Mother,
He calls her Woman.
It would seem to imply that He just
might be Identifying her as the woman
in Genesis 3:15 from above.
Now lets move on to Revelation.
19 Then God's temple in heaven
was opened, and within his temple
was seen the ark of his covenant.
And there came flashes of lightning,
rumblings, peals of thunder, an
earthquake and a great hailstorm.
Revelation 12:19
1 A great and wondrous sign appeared
in heaven: a woman clothed with
the sun, with the moon under her
feet and a crown of twelve stars
on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out
in pain as she was about to give
birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in
heaven: an enormous red dragon
with seven heads and ten horns
and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the
stars out of the sky and flung
them to the earth. The dragon
stood in front of the woman who
was about to give birth, so that
he might devour her child the
moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male
child, who will rule all the nations
with an iron scepter. And her
child was snatched up to God and
to his throne.
Revelation 11:19 - Revelation 12:5 |
Remember, the chapter divisions
that we now have in the Bible
were not there in the original
texts. They were placed there
for our reading ease, centuries
later.
Here we have the Apostle John seeing
signs in Heaven. First, he sees the
Ark of God's Covenant then he sees
a woman. The text is pretty clear
as to who the woman is. Further,
all the early Church Fathers understood
this to be Mary, but they went further.
The Early Fathers made the connection
between the Ark of the Covenant and
Mary. She was called the Ark of the
New Covenant.
Well, the Ark carried in it three things:
- the written Word of God
- the Staff of Aaron which was
the sign of the Priesthood, and
- Manna, the bread that came down from
heaven.
Now!!
In Her Womb Mary carried:
- The Living Word of God
- The One High Priest, and
- The Living Bread of Life
- OK, what does this have to
do with Mary's Immaculate Conception?
Well, the Ark, which carried the
symbols and Type of Christ, had to
be "perfectly made."
Does it not follow that, if the
foreshadowing sign had the prerequisite
of perfection, that the reality
would at least have that same
perfection?
Now let me address your objections
from Romans.
Paul is addressing Jews who believe
that they are better than Gentiles.
When he says there is no one righteous,
he is quoting Psalms:
1 The fool has said in his heart, "There
is no God." They are corrupt,
they have done abominable works,
there is none who does good. 2 The LORD looks down from heaven
upon the children of men, to see
if there are any who understand,
who seek God. 3 They have all turned aside,
they have together become corrupt;
there is none who does good, no,
not one. 4 Have
all the workers of iniquity no
knowledge, who eat up my people
as they eat bread, and do not
call on the LORD? 5 There they are in great fear,
for God is with the generation
of the righteous.
Psalm 14:1-5 |
First of all when Paul was quoting
the Old Testament to Jews he would:
- never quote it out of context, and
- he was actually recalling the
entire Old Testament text to their
memories.
Psalm 14 was written by David while
he was being persecuted by unrighteous
Jews!! If Paul tried to use
this text to say that every person
was unrighteous then the Jew reading
this would say:
Ahh!!
- Excuse me Paul but what
about verses 4 and 5?
- Hello, Paul
!! if everyone is unrighteous
then who is the generation
of the righteous that
David is writing about?
|
So you see Romans has to be understood
against the background of what Paul
is arguing for, and against. He is arguing
against the keeping of ceremonial
Mosaic Laws and circumcision as a
means to achieve righteousness. He
is arguing that the Gentiles are
just as welcome in the Church as
the Jews are.
So his point is: Look guys, being
a Jew does not mean you are righteous.
The next text you brought up was Romans 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall
short of the glory of God
Romans 3:23 |
Well, in the first place this text
is discussing personal
sin not original
sin, or sin by nature,
so it does not effect the issue of
Mary being preserved from original
sin. That said, let's discuss personal
sin.
The word all can be
used in the distributive
sense, that is, every single
person. If that is the case, there
can be no exceptions.
- Can a baby commit personal
sin?
- Can a mentally (retarded|challenged)
person commit personal sin?
<Of course not, so there are some
exceptions.>
Let's see how else
the Bible uses the word all.
5 Then Jerusalem, all Judea,
and all the region around the
Jordan went out to him 6 and were
baptized by him in the Jordan,
confessing their sins.
Matthew 3:5-6 |
Now using the distributive sense,
John the Baptist does dunk every
single person in Judea and the surrounding
area in the Jordan!
So you see Romans 3:23 does not have
to mean that every human being has
personal sin. There are clearly exceptions.
By the way, I'm not implying that
someone born with sin by nature who
is able to reason can be guiltless
of personal sin, but babies have
no reason. Mary, as I've showed you
from Scripture, did not have original
sin. Therefore she, like Adam or
Eve, could have chosen to sin or
not to sin.
With regards to the Assumption. It
is not mentioned per se in the Bible,
but some early fathers do talk about Revelation 12 in reference to the
Assumption. Nevertheless, there are assumptions
in the Bible. Enoch, Elijah (Genesis 5:24, 2 Kings 2:11) and Moses
(Jude
1:9) were all bodily assumed into Heaven,
so the precedent is certainly there. This
posting may help.
As for Mary's Perpetual Virginity. There
is no text which demands that we
believe something to the contrary. Nowhere
are the brothers of Jesus called
the sons of Mary. They could have
been sons of Joseph by a previous
marriage. Other texts, which are used
to prove otherwise, also fall apart
under careful scrutiny. This posting will help a lot.
I could go on and on from the Scriptures
alone regarding Mary; it's all there.
In additional we can add the testimony
of the Early
Church Fathers.
Again, I highly suggest you research
them on this and similar subjects.
Beyond that, a careful study of:
- Luther
- Calvin, and
- Zwingli
will show that
they went to their deaths holding
many Catholic doctrines about Mary.
Well, I hope this helps answer some
of your questions. I'd be happy to
continue a dialogue with you. Please
feel free to write and stay in touch.
Under His Mercy,
John DiMascio
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