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Since Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before he was water baptized Cornelius
was already saved before he was water baptized. Therefore water Baptism is not
essential for salvation.
Also only God is to be prayed to. Mary is not to be prayed to.
Regards
- Marc Taylor
{
Wasn't
Cornelius already saved? plus ... }
Eric replied:
Hi Marc,
You wrote: Since Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before he
was water baptized Cornelius was already saved before he was water baptized.
Therefore water Baptism is not essential for salvation.
Yeah. So?
God is free to do what he wants to do. If he wants to save someone apart
from water Baptism, that is his prerogative. Catholics have always believed
in Baptism of Desire, which means that if someone has a desire to be baptized
(for example, a catechumen), but dies without receiving water Baptism,
he is still saved. Hence you are mistaken if you think that Catholicism
teaches that Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.
That being said, Baptism is the normal means by which we receive salvation,
and God commands it, and Scripture says that it is through Baptism that
we participate in the resurrection (Romans 6), so we have every reason
to seek Baptism. Someone who deliberately refuses to undergo Baptism is
putting their soul at serious risk. There is no justifiable reason for
refusing Baptism.
Eric Ewanco
Mike replied:
Hi Marc,
Thanks for the questions.
You stated: Also only God is to be prayed to. Mary is not to be prayed
to.
Below are a list of Scripture passages that defend Catholic beliefs and
practices. Though Church teaching is not solely dependent on the Sacred
Scriptures, you will be able to see Scriptural support for key Catholic
teachings here and I believe better understand why we pray BOTH to God
AND to Mary.
We honor (we don't worship) those that God honors and we ask for their
help and assistance. We see them as holy men and women who modeled a virtuous
life. In imitating them, the saints, we imitate Christ Our Lord. When others
see our Christian kindness and charity and tend give us the credit, we
say what all the saints in Heaven and Earth would say, echoing St. John,
"It is not I, but Christ in me!"
Of all saints God has honored the most, Jesus' mother is at the top. Why?
Because without her
YES, "I will become the handmaid of the Lord and mother of Jesus",
Luke 1:39
neither you nor I would have a personal relationship
with Our Lord Jesus! He wouldn't have become man!
Because I sense you are following a theology of "the Bible ALONE",
my question is:
Where in the Bible does it say:
Only God is to be prayed to and Mary is not to be prayed to?
OR are you following the "traditions of men"?
Hope this helps,
Mike
Communion of Saints
Romans 8:35-39 - death cannot separate
us from Christ. Note: So Catholics are praying to and asking for help
from saints that are ALIVE. We pray to Jesus AND the saints. The communion
of saints is not an EITHER/OR issue, it is an AND/BOTH: family
affair! Romans 12:5 - we are one body in Christ, individual
parts of one another Romans 12:10 - love one another with mutual affection 1 Corinthians 12:12-27 - If one part is hurt (suffers),
all the parts share its pain. And if one part is honoured, all the parts
share its joy Galatians 6:2 - bear one another's burdens Galatians 6:10 - let us do good to all, especially to
those in the family of faith Ephesians 1:22-23 - He is the head of the Church, which
is His Body Ephesians 4:4 - one body, one spirit, called to one
hope Ephesians 5:21-32 - Christ is the Head of the Church,
savior of the body Colossians 1:18, 24 - He is the head of the body, the
Church Colossians 3:15 - you were called in one body 1 Thessalonians 5:11 - encourage, build up one another
Intercessory prayer to the Saints
Tobit 12:12 - angel presents Tobit
and Sarah's prayer to God Romans 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God on my behalf Ephesians 4:3 - pray for us Ephesians 6:18-19 - Never get tired of staying awake to
pray for all God's holy people, and pray for me to be given an opportunity
to open my mouth and fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel 2 Thessalonians 1:11 - we always pray for you 2 Thessalonians 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us Revelation 5:8 - angel offers prayers of the holy ones
to God
Are the saints dead? Is this prayer necromancy? (Deuteronomy
18:10)?
Wisdom 3:1-6 - the souls of the
just are in the hand of God Mark 12:26-27 - he is the God of the living, not of the
dead Mark 9:4 - Jesus seen conversing with Elijah and Moses Luke 16:19-30 - departed rich man intercedes for brothers Luke 23:43 - To the thief on the Cross: "this day
you will be with me in paradise" Hebrews 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses Revelation 6:9-11 - martyrs under the altar want earthly
vindication Revelation 20:4 - saw the souls of those that had been
beheaded
Understanding, "One mediator between God and man" (1
Timothy 2:5)
Matthew 25:23 - Well done, my good
and faithful servant (the servant is not undermining the sole mediation of
Christ by what he as done.) Mark 10:18 - only God is good John 21:15-16 - feed my lambs, tend my sheep Ephesians 4:11 - And to some, his ‘gift’ was
that they should be apostles; to some prophets; to some, evangelists; to
some, pastors and teachers Hebrews 3:1, 7:24, 9:12 - Jesus is the eternal high priest;
one sacrifice Note: Jesus is the eternal high priest. Because Our Lord
was a divine person, his ONE sacrifice happened in time AND eternity. Catholic
priests enter into that one sacrifice of Jesus every time they celebrate
Holy Mass. There is NOT another sacrifice. By HIS choice we participate
in his priesthood by bringing the Gospel to those that have not heard it.
By doing this we don't undermine his ONE mediation, but participate
in it.
1 Timothy 2:1-7 - offer prayers and petitions for all men 1 Peter 2:5 - be a holy priesthood to offer sacrifices through
Christ Revelation 1:6, 5:10 - he made us a kingdom of priests
for God
Veneration of the Saints
Joshua 5:14 - Joshua fell prostrate
in worship before the angel Daniel 8:17 - Daniel fell prostrate in terror before Gabriel Tobit 12:16 - Tobiah and Tobit fall to the ground before
Raphael Matthew 18:10 - the angels in heaven are always before
the face of God Note: We venerate/honor angels because of their great
dignity, which comes from their union with God. Saints are also in united
with God. Veneration and honor ARE NOT WORSHIP. Catholics worship GOD/Jesus
alone! Hebrews 13:7 - Remember your leaders, who preached the
word of God to you, and as you reflect on the outcome of their lives, take
their faith as your model 1 Thessalonians 1:5-8 - you become an example to all believers Note: this is what saints are for Catholics and all mankind.
They are examples of holiness. 1 John 3:2 - we shall be like him, for we shall see him
as he is
Marc Taylor replied:
Hi Mike,
Latreuo is due to God alone. No one else should be given latreuo but
Him. One of the ways latreuo is to be rendered is by "prayers" (Luke
2:37). Therefore to pray to someone/something is to give them the latreuo
that is only meant for God.
Prayer of petition is the prayer of worship (latreuo). Deesis the
Greek word used in Luke 2:37 as prayer means a supplication (which is
thus a petition as a prayer).
Proseuchemai is the more common word for pray(er). That being
the case there is then no distinction between a prayer of petition and
a prayer of worship. Latreuo would cover both of them.
Regards
- Marc
Eric replied:
Who says that there is no distinction between a prayer of petition and
a prayer of worship? If we do not intend to worship a saint by praying
to them, then we do not worship them. "Worship" is an interior
disposition; whether a prayer constitutes worship depends solely on the
disposition of the pray-er. God knows the disposition.
In Latin the word for pray is the same as the word for "ask".
And that's all we're doing with the saints, is asking them for their prayers.
I could decide that instead I am going to pray to God to ask the saints
to pray for me; certainly that would be a legitimate prayer to make (might
not be granted, to be sure, but perfectly legitimate).
Then all I'd have to say is that praying to a saint is shorthand for asking
God to ask them to pray for me. There really isn't a difference.
Given that the saints are involved in our prayers anyway (Rev 5:8), intercede
on our behalf (Jer 15:1), and surround us (Heb 12:1, 12:23) there is very
little jump to ask them explicitly for their prayers.
Eric
Mike replied:
Hi Marc,
To my knowledge I've never heard "latreuo" rendered as prayer, though we
do make a distinction between the "prayer of petition" and the "prayer
of worship".
The prayer of worship in the Roman Catholic Church is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
It is offered to God alone. All Catholics celebrate this on Sundays and can during
the weekday as well. Though we can honor a special saint on any weekday and mention
his/her name at the beginning of Mass, the Holy Mass itself is worship to God alone.
The prayer of petition is a request to have a brother Christian in Heaven pray for
you and your needs.
Thanks for replying!
Mike
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