Hi, Abby —
Thanks for the question,
After researching my Bible
software from the Vatican: Biblia
Clerus, I found the following occurrences
of both 4,000 and 5,000.
Four
thousand:
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Five
thousand:
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I scanned and transcribed the appropriate
parts of my 1954 Catholic Commentary
on
Holy Scriptures on those passages
that dealt with the feeding of the
multitudes.
You may find something in the commentaries
interesting. That transcription follows:
Matthew 14:13-21
13-21. First Multiplication of Loaves
(Mark 6:31-44; Luke 9:10-17; John
6:1-15)
13. If Matthew's formula is not a
transitional cliche, it implies
our Lord's suggestion of repose
for his disciples (Mark) was reinforced
by the fate of John the Baptist,
and the sinister reflection of
Antipas. The people were evidently
excited; Antipas might act; our
Lord used his human prudence and
retired to a place apart,
i.e. not so much secluded as
removed from the crowds. He and
his disciples were on the west
side of the Lake,
presumably near Capharnaum, Mark 6:32. They quietly withdrew from
Antipas's territory and sailed
to that of Philip the tetrarch,
to the neighborhood of Bethsaida
Julias in Gaulanitis; (cf. Luke
9:10.) The crowds, not to be thwarted,
followed on foot; doubtless they
had observed where the boat was
heading. The distance (circa 6
meters.) was almost twice that
by sea, but the disciples, in
need of rest, were in no hurry and the crowd arrived first, (Mark
6:33.) Its numbers had increased
as it went. 14. Our Lord's heart could
never resist suffering. In the
broad, uncultivated plain that
lies to the Southeast of Bethsaida
between hills and sea, he healed
the sick. He taught the simple folk, too, Mark 15. The work went on
until late afternoon/evening.
Our Lord took no heed but the
hungry disciples called his attention
to the fact that the time (for
refreshment?) had slipped by.
They were perhaps not thinking
solely of the multitudes! 16-17.
The Master's command must have
left them dumbfounded. It was
Peter's brother, John 6:8, who told of the boy with the five
cheap (barley) loaves and the
two dried fish. This remark of
Andrew's was not meant to be helpful
- Philip had already calculated
two hundred days' labor would
not buy the necessary provender. 18-19. The plain of Bethsaida
is in spring at the time of the
Pasch, John 6:4, and all sat down
on the grass in companies, Mark
6:40, at our Lord's bidding. He
evidently wished to give the impression
of a formal meal and, in the same spirit, he invoked a blessing like the
father of a family. The breaking
of the bread also, being mentioned
by all four evangelists, is evidently
significant: Our Lord repeated
this action just one year later,
at the Last Supper. It would appear
that the ceremony was deliberately
symbolic of the Holy Eucharist
but the symbolism is our Lord's:
the very sober account of the
evangelists suggests historical
intention on their part and not
symbolism. Moreover, the presence of the fish and the absence of
wine does not suggest that we have here a mere symbol of the
Eucharist. (On the opinions of
non-Catholic critics cf. Lagrange,
Matthew, 170 f.) Whether the bread
increased in our Lord's hands or in the Apostles' does not appear. 20-21. The prodigality of God's
gifts does not excuse human waste and the remnants are gathered up.
They fill twelve baskets (the
property, perhaps, of the twelve
Apostles) whereas the original
amount had been carried in one
— the boy's. The baskets
here are hampers in 15:37 (second
multiplication) and the distinction
is preserved when our Lord recalls
the two miracles, (16:9-10). It
would seem that the distinction
is not merely literary: The word
used appears to have been a strong
wicker (as used for farm work)
the word used in 15:37 being a
larger hamper used chiefly
for food. |
Matthew 15:32-39
32-39. Second Multiplication
of Loaves (Mark 8:1-10)
The
evangelists plainly record the
multiplications as two separate
miracles. Each narrates them in
close succession (Matthew chapter
14-15, Mark chapters 6 and 8)
and subsequently refers to them
as two separate events, (Matthew
16:9-10 and Mark 8:19-20). If
the unexpectant attitude of the
disciples on this second occasion
seem surprising, we should remember
the months that had elapsed since
the former miracle, the occasions
on which the disciples must have
since gone hungry without a miracle
being worked, their very proper
diffidence in asking for a miracle. 32. The disciples therefore leave
it to Our Lord to comment on the
hunger of the crowds. He does
so. Their provisions are exhausted
after three days with him, far
from their homes (Mark). Jesus
proposes a dilemma: they have no food here yet he will not send
them elsewhere. He is clearly
inviting the disciples to ask
for a solution like the previous
one (14:19). So far, the text
does not excludes (rather it suggests)
a previous multiplication of loaves. 33-34. The disciple's remark is cautious, perhaps a sly suggestion: Whence should we [emphatic] have
. . . ? They express their own helplessness,
not necessarily his. Moreover,
their answer to our Lord's question:
How many loaves? is not the helpless
one of 14:17 (only five) but
simply Seven as if,
in this case, the information
was not regarded as useless. 35-38. The multitude (4,000 here, 5,000
in chapter 14) sat on the ground
— there was no green
grass as on the previous
occasion, Mark 6:39; it was summer.
The number of hampers corresponds,
not to the number of the Apostles
(unlike 14:20) but to the original
number of loaves, thus more directly
signalizing the abundance of the
miracle. 39. It appears that our Lord set sail for the western bank of the Lake since it is on this bank that it would be most likely to meet the Pharisees, (16:1) and since it is to the eastern side that He later sails, (16:5) to go to Caesarea Philippi (16:13) via Bethsaida Julias (Mark 8:22) But the point of arrival Magadan (Dalmanutha) in Mark) is unknown, It is probable however that the form, certainly authentic, represents Magadala, just as the Migdal of Joshua 15:37 is transcribed Magada in the Vatican Codex. Mark's coasts — i.e. district — of Dalmanutha may represent an Aramaic original liglîlā or to the place of his abode (Mark 8:10). |
Mark 6:30-44
33-44. Return of the Twelve and Feeding
of the Five Thousand;
(cf. Matthew
14:13-21; Luke 9:10-17; John
6:1-15)
30-33. Mark here resumes
the account of the Apostle's mission
from which it digressed at verse
14. As a result of the activity
of the Twelve, fresh throngs were
coming to Christ so that the disciples had
not time even to eat. 31. It was solicitude for the Apostles,
not any fear of Herod's intentions,
which prompted Christ to take
them away by boat to an uninhabited
place near Bethsaida, Luke 9:10,
where they could rest from their
labors. But the crowds saw from
the shore the direction they had
taken and, surmising their destination,
followed on foot. Mark alone has
the detail that the crowds had
arrived before Christ and the
disciples. 34-44. The Feeding
of the Five Thousand is the only
miracle recorded by all four evangelists. 34. Though the presence of the crowd
ended the prospect of a period
of rest, Jesus did not resent
this nor seek to go elsewhere.
He had pity on them because they
were like sheep without a shepherd. (cf. Ezekiel 34:5) Christ was
the Messianic shepherd foretold
by Ezekiel 34:23, and in fulfillment of that role, he began to give them
instruction. They had been neglected
by those whose duty it was to
give them guidance: 37b.Are
we to go and buy two hundred denarii
worth of bread and give it to
them to eat? 39. companies
here means groups of guests. green
grass is to be found in
Palestine only in the spring.
This indication of the time of
year at which the miracle was
performed agrees with John's statement
that the Pasch was near (John
6:4). 40.ranks here
means flower beds.
The crowds when arranged in groups
on the ground, which, at this
season, would have a rich carpet
of flowers, looked like garden-plots
in orderly arrangement. 41. blessed:
The usual formula of blessing
was Blessed be Thou, Yahweh
our God, King of the universe,
who has caused the earth to bring
forth bread.
The multiplication
of the loaves was a foreshadowing
of the Eucharist and, together
with the walking on the waters, was a manifestation of
power which made an admirable
prelude to the Eucharistic discourse, John 6:26-72. |
Luke 9:10-17
Feeding of the Multitude (Matthew
14:13-21; Mark 6:30-44).
There
is little change from Mark here
(except of a literary character)
beyond the introduction of the
miracle in verses 10b-11, where
the mention of Bethsaida indicates
a special source; Luke is often
careless of topography, and even
here does not tell us how the
scene changes from Bethsaida to the desert place of 12. |
John 6:1-13
1-13 First Multiplication of Bread.
The miracle is the only
one narrated by all four evangelists,
the most vividly picturesque description
being that of Mark, to which however
John adds some precise details,
such as the question addressed
to Philip individually and the
discovery made by Andrew.
1-4. John's opening indication of time
denotes only sequence, without
any chronological precision. What
direction the journey across the
Lake took is not stated but, unless
the context decided otherwise,
it should be as obvious as trans
Tiberim was to a Roman. The crossing was from the western shore, on
the northern curve of which stood
Capharnaum, the missionary city
of Jesus, to the eastern side
dominated on the north by Bethsaida
Julias. The Sea of Galilee, also
called the Lake of Genesareth,
(Luke 5:1), is named by John only
(cf. 21:1) from the city built
on its shore by Herod Antipas,
between 26 and 28 A.D. and named
Tiberias after the reigning Emperor.
This name of the Lake had established
itself when John's Gospel was
written. The occasion of the journey
is gathered from the Synoptists. Matthew 14:12 connects it with the Precursor's murder, and thus
it may be interpreted as a temporary
withdrawal from the murderer's
territory to that of Herod Philip.
Mark and (Luke 9:10) date it after
the return of the Apostles from
a mission; and the former specifies
that the Master wanted to give
the Twelve a rest from the exhausting
work that followed their return, Mark 6:31. 2. Popular enthusiasm
had been running very high; and
while Herod imagined that the
Miracle-worker of Galilee was
John returned to life, others were
ready to regard him as Elias or the Prophet, Deuteronomy 18:15. The miracles worked on the sick
made the crowds (augmented by
Paschal pilgrims) observe the
departure of Jesus and also urged
them to follow him. They flocked
to the same destination on foot,
(Mark 6:33). 3. The mountain on
which Jesus sat with his disciples
looked out on the Plain now called
El Bateha. There is an indefinable
solemnity in this simple session. 4. The proximity of the Passover
is doubtless marked for a special
reason. Twelve months hence the
festival of the Jews will give place to the new Pasch of
the new Law.
5-9 5. Until
the afternoon, (Luke), and the
approach of evening, (Matthew,
Mark), Jesus taught the crowds,
(Mark and Luke), and healed their
sick. (Luke) Mark notes his pity
for their abandonment and his
care for their hunger, which latter
in John epitomizes in the gesture
of Jesus surveying the crowd with
his eyes and in his question to
Philip on the possibility of buying
bread to feed them. A dismissal
of the crowd, who could scatter
and feed food in the surrounding
villages had already been suggested
by the Apostles. 6. The question
addressed to Philip was a test
put to one who seems to have been
a business man. Jesus himself
knew what he would do. 7. The
contemporary local price of bread
is unknown to us, but Philip estimated
that the wages of a laborer working
six days a week for eight months would not suffice to procure a little
for each of the many gathered
there. 8 Andrew, who like Philip,
was from Bethsaida, found a boy
with five barley loaves (the food
of the poor) and two little fishes
salted, perhaps at Taricheae,
the Salt Fish City, at the Southwest corner of the Lake. As three of those small flat Palestinian loaves
were required to give man a fair
meal, (Luke 11:5), 5, the supply
discovered would have made a picnic
for only two or three, or at most
five persons. Hence Andrew's question:
What are these among so many?
10-13 10. Matthew, Mark and John
note the grassy verdure of the
place where the Lord prepared
a table in the wilderness.
The grass also marks the springtime. Five
thousand men, as well as women
and children (not estimated but
presumably in numbers) sat or
reclined in companies of 50 or
100, Mark 6:40. Mark's description
is exquisitely graphic. They looked
like flower-beds on the green. 11. Jesus took the loaves. John
does not note the gesture of looking
to Heaven, which owing to the
analogy of the situations has
passed from Matthew, Mark, Luke
to the Qui pridie narrative in
the Latin Mass, but John does
use a special verb used in the
synoptists. This verb, deliberately
repeated in verse 23, should be
regarded as a distinct allusion
to the Eucharistic significance
of the miracle. The distribution was made by the Apostles, (Matthew,
Mark, Luke), the bread being multiplied
either antecedently, or when passing
from the hands of Jesus, or (most
probably) in the hands of the
Apostles. From the loaves and
from the fishes each received
not the little bit envisaged
by Philip but a full meal. 12. The gathering up of the fragments
was an act of reverential economy
towards the gift of God. 13. The
place of the Twelve is put in
evidence by the baskets — Jewish
traveling baskets were almost
proverbial.
Let us take St. Augustine's
advice and not merely look at
the outside of the miracle, like
a man who admires calligraphy
which he cannot read. Mental comprehension,
not mere ocular or imaginative
apprehension, should be our endeavor,
when we read this miracle on Laetare
Sunday. The same
Word, by whom are all things,
feeds the world from a few grains
of corn, and the same, also multiplies
Himself Incarnate on thousands
of altars. |
There was no mention of any special
meaning of the number 4,000 or 5,000 except for what I highlighted in John 6:1-13.
I would take two guesses:
- The number 1,000 in Hebrew may
have a special meaning denoting
some grouping
of 4 or 5 or, but more probably
- there were about 4,000 or 5,000
people the Scripture writer was referring to.
Remember though, back then, the male
in the house had a much more important
status than the wife and their children.
He represented his family. So when
you read there were 4,000 in number,
they are probably counting only the
male heads of households. There were
probably closer to 6,000 or 7,500
people at each gathering.
Hope this helps,
Mike
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