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Abby Robinson wrote:

Hi, guys —

  • What is the significance of the numbers 4,000 and 5,000 in the Gospel accounts of the loaves and fishes?

Abby

  { What is the import of the numbers 4,000 and 5,000 in the Gospel reports of the loaves and fishes? }

Mike replied:

Hi, Abby —

Thanks for the question,

After researching my Bible software from the Vatican: Biblia Clerus, I found the following occurrences of both 4,000 and 5,000.

Four thousand:

Five thousand:

I scanned and transcribed the appropriate parts of my 1954 Catholic Commentary on
Holy Scriptures
on those passages that dealt with the feeding of the multitudes.

You may find something in the commentaries interesting. That transcription follows:

Matthew 14:13-21

13-21. First Multiplication of Loaves (Mark 6:31-44; Luke 9:10-17; John 6:1-15)

13. If Matthew's formula is not a transitional cliche, it implies our Lord's suggestion of repose for his disciples (Mark) was reinforced by the fate of John the Baptist, and the sinister reflection of Antipas. The people were evidently excited; Antipas might act; our Lord used his human prudence and retired to a place apart, i.e. not so much secluded as removed from the crowds. He and his disciples were on the west side of the Lake, presumably near Capharnaum, Mark 6:32. They quietly withdrew from Antipas's territory and sailed to that of Philip the tetrarch, to the neighborhood of Bethsaida Julias in Gaulanitis; (cf. Luke 9:10.) The crowds, not to be thwarted, followed on foot; doubtless they had observed where the boat was heading. The distance (circa 6 meters.) was almost twice that by sea, but the disciples, in need of rest, were in no hurry and the crowd arrived first, (Mark 6:33.) Its numbers had increased as it went. 14. Our Lord's heart could never resist suffering. In the broad, uncultivated plain that lies to the Southeast of Bethsaida between hills and sea, he healed the sick. He taught the simple folk, too, Mark 15. The work went on until late afternoon/evening. Our Lord took no heed but the hungry disciples called his attention to the fact that the time (for refreshment?) had slipped by. They were perhaps not thinking solely of the multitudes! 16-17. The Master's command must have left them dumbfounded. It was Peter's brother, John 6:8, who told of the boy with the five cheap (barley) loaves and the two dried fish. This remark of Andrew's was not meant to be helpful - Philip had already calculated two hundred days' labor would not buy the necessary provender. 18-19. The plain of Bethsaida is in spring at the time of the Pasch, John 6:4, and all sat down on the grass in companies, Mark 6:40, at our Lord's bidding. He evidently wished to give the impression of a formal meal and, in the same spirit, he invoked a blessing like the father of a family. The breaking of the bread also, being mentioned by all four evangelists, is evidently significant: Our Lord repeated this action just one year later, at the Last Supper. It would appear that the ceremony was deliberately symbolic of the Holy Eucharist but the symbolism is our Lord's: the very sober account of the evangelists suggests historical intention on their part and not symbolism. Moreover, the presence of the fish and the absence of wine does not suggest that we have here a mere symbol of the Eucharist. (On the opinions of non-Catholic critics cf. Lagrange, Matthew, 170 f.) Whether the bread increased in our Lord's hands or in the Apostles' does not appear. 20-21. The prodigality of God's gifts does not excuse human waste and the remnants are gathered up. They fill twelve baskets (the property, perhaps, of the twelve Apostles) whereas the original amount had been carried in one — the boy's. The baskets here are hampers in 15:37 (second multiplication) and the distinction is preserved when our Lord recalls the two miracles, (16:9-10). It would seem that the distinction is not merely literary: The word used appears to have been a strong wicker (as used for farm work) the word used in 15:37 being a larger hamper used chiefly for food.

Matthew 15:32-39

32-39. Second Multiplication of Loaves (Mark 8:1-10)

The evangelists plainly record the multiplications as two separate miracles. Each narrates them in close succession (Matthew chapter 14-15, Mark chapters 6 and 8) and subsequently refers to them as two separate events, (Matthew 16:9-10 and Mark 8:19-20). If the unexpectant attitude of the disciples on this second occasion seem surprising, we should remember the months that had elapsed since the former miracle, the occasions on which the disciples must have since gone hungry without a miracle being worked, their very proper diffidence in asking for a miracle. 32. The disciples therefore leave it to Our Lord to comment on the hunger of the crowds. He does so. Their provisions are exhausted after three days with him, far from their homes (Mark). Jesus proposes a dilemma: they have no food here yet he will not send them elsewhere. He is clearly inviting the disciples to ask for a solution like the previous one (14:19). So far, the text does not excludes (rather it suggests) a previous multiplication of loaves. 33-34. The disciple's remark is cautious, perhaps a sly suggestion: Whence should we [emphatic] have . . . ? They express their own helplessness, not necessarily his. Moreover, their answer to our Lord's question: How many loaves? is not the helpless one of 14:17 (only five) but simply Seven as if, in this case, the information was not regarded as useless. 35-38. The multitude (4,000 here, 5,000 in chapter 14) sat on the ground — there was no green grass as on the previous occasion, Mark 6:39; it was summer. The number of hampers corresponds, not to the number of the Apostles (unlike 14:20) but to the original number of loaves, thus more directly signalizing the abundance of the miracle. 39. It appears that our Lord set sail for the western bank of the Lake since it is on this bank that it would be most likely to meet the Pharisees, (16:1) and since it is to the eastern side that He later sails, (16:5) to go to Caesarea Philippi (16:13) via Bethsaida Julias (Mark 8:22) But the point of arrival Magadan (Dalmanutha) in Mark) is unknown, It is probable however that the form, certainly authentic, represents Magadala, just as the Migdal of Joshua 15:37 is transcribed Magada in the Vatican Codex. Mark's coasts — i.e. district — of Dalmanutha may represent an Aramaic original liglîlā or to the place of his abode (Mark 8:10).

Mark 6:30-44

33-44. Return of the Twelve and Feeding of the Five Thousand;
(cf. Matthew 14:13-21; Luke 9:10-17; John 6:1-15)

30-33. Mark here resumes the account of the Apostle's mission from which it digressed at verse 14. As a result of the activity of the Twelve, fresh throngs were coming to Christ so that the disciples had not time even to eat. 31. It was solicitude for the Apostles, not any fear of Herod's intentions, which prompted Christ to take them away by boat to an uninhabited place near Bethsaida, Luke 9:10, where they could rest from their labors. But the crowds saw from the shore the direction they had taken and, surmising their destination, followed on foot. Mark alone has the detail that the crowds had arrived before Christ and the disciples. 34-44. The Feeding of the Five Thousand is the only miracle recorded by all four evangelists. 34. Though the presence of the crowd ended the prospect of a period of rest, Jesus did not resent this nor seek to go elsewhere. He had pity on them because they were like sheep without a shepherd. (cf. Ezekiel 34:5) Christ was the Messianic shepherd foretold by Ezekiel 34:23, and in fulfillment of that role, he began to give them instruction. They had been neglected by those whose duty it was to give them guidance: 37b.Are we to go and buy two hundred denarii worth of bread and give it to them to eat? 39. companies here means groups of guests. green grass is to be found in Palestine only in the spring. This indication of the time of year at which the miracle was performed agrees with John's statement that the Pasch was near (John 6:4). 40.ranks here means flower beds. The crowds when arranged in groups on the ground, which, at this season, would have a rich carpet of flowers, looked like garden-plots in orderly arrangement. 41. blessed: The usual formula of blessing was Blessed be Thou, Yahweh our God, King of the universe, who has caused the earth to bring forth bread.

The multiplication of the loaves was a foreshadowing of the Eucharist and, together with the walking on the waters, was a manifestation of power which made an admirable prelude to the Eucharistic discourse, John 6:26-72.

Luke 9:10-17

Feeding of the Multitude (Matthew 14:13-21; Mark 6:30-44).

There is little change from Mark here (except of a literary character) beyond the introduction of the miracle in verses 10b-11, where the mention of Bethsaida indicates a special source; Luke is often careless of topography, and even here does not tell us how the scene changes from Bethsaida to the desert place of 12.

John 6:1-13

1-13 First Multiplication of Bread.

The miracle is the only one narrated by all four evangelists, the most vividly picturesque description being that of Mark, to which however John adds some precise details, such as the question addressed to Philip individually and the discovery made by Andrew.

1-4. John's opening indication of time denotes only sequence, without any chronological precision. What direction the journey across the Lake took is not stated but, unless the context decided otherwise, it should be as obvious as trans Tiberim was to a Roman. The crossing was from the western shore, on the northern curve of which stood Capharnaum, the missionary city of Jesus, to the eastern side dominated on the north by Bethsaida Julias. The Sea of Galilee, also called the Lake of Genesareth, (Luke 5:1), is named by John only (cf. 21:1) from the city built on its shore by Herod Antipas, between 26 and 28 A.D. and named Tiberias after the reigning Emperor. This name of the Lake had established itself when John's Gospel was written. The occasion of the journey is gathered from the Synoptists. Matthew 14:12 connects it with the Precursor's murder, and thus it may be interpreted as a temporary withdrawal from the murderer's territory to that of Herod Philip. Mark and (Luke 9:10) date it after the return of the Apostles from a mission; and the former specifies that the Master wanted to give the Twelve a rest from the exhausting work that followed their return, Mark 6:31. 2. Popular enthusiasm had been running very high; and while Herod imagined that the Miracle-worker of Galilee was John returned to life, others were ready to regard him as Elias or the Prophet, Deuteronomy 18:15. The miracles worked on the sick made the crowds (augmented by Paschal pilgrims) observe the departure of Jesus and also urged them to follow him. They flocked to the same destination on foot, (Mark 6:33). 3. The mountain on which Jesus sat with his disciples looked out on the Plain now called El Bateha. There is an indefinable solemnity in this simple session. 4. The proximity of the Passover is doubtless marked for a special reason. Twelve months hence the festival of the Jews will give place to the new Pasch of the new Law.

5-9 5. Until the afternoon, (Luke), and the approach of evening, (Matthew, Mark), Jesus taught the crowds, (Mark and Luke), and healed their sick. (Luke) Mark notes his pity for their abandonment and his care for their hunger, which latter in John epitomizes in the gesture of Jesus surveying the crowd with his eyes and in his question to Philip on the possibility of buying bread to feed them. A dismissal of the crowd, who could scatter and feed food in the surrounding villages had already been suggested by the Apostles. 6. The question addressed to Philip was a test put to one who seems to have been a business man. Jesus himself knew what he would do. 7. The contemporary local price of bread is unknown to us, but Philip estimated that the wages of a laborer working six days a week for eight months would not suffice to procure a little for each of the many gathered there. 8 Andrew, who like Philip, was from Bethsaida, found a boy with five barley loaves (the food of the poor) and two little fishes salted, perhaps at Taricheae, the Salt Fish City, at the Southwest corner of the Lake. As three of those small flat Palestinian loaves were required to give man a fair meal, (Luke 11:5), 5, the supply discovered would have made a picnic for only two or three, or at most five persons. Hence Andrew's question: What are these among so many?

10-13 10. Matthew, Mark and John note the grassy verdure of the place where the Lord prepared a table in the wilderness. The grass also marks the springtime. Five thousand men, as well as women and children (not estimated but presumably in numbers) sat or reclined in companies of 50 or 100, Mark 6:40. Mark's description is exquisitely graphic. They looked like flower-beds on the green. 11. Jesus took the loaves. John does not note the gesture of looking to Heaven, which owing to the analogy of the situations has passed from Matthew, Mark, Luke to the Qui pridie narrative in the Latin Mass, but John does use a special verb used in the synoptists. This verb, deliberately repeated in verse 23, should be regarded as a distinct allusion to the Eucharistic significance of the miracle. The distribution was made by the Apostles, (Matthew, Mark, Luke), the bread being multiplied either antecedently, or when passing from the hands of Jesus, or (most probably) in the hands of the Apostles. From the loaves and from the fishes each received not the little bit envisaged by Philip but a full meal. 12. The gathering up of the fragments was an act of reverential economy towards the gift of God. 13. The place of the Twelve is put in evidence by the baskets — Jewish traveling baskets were almost proverbial.

Let us take St. Augustine's advice and not merely look at the outside of the miracle, like a man who admires calligraphy which he cannot read. Mental comprehension, not mere ocular or imaginative apprehension, should be our endeavor, when we read this miracle on Laetare Sunday. The same Word, by whom are all things, feeds the world from a few grains of corn, and the same, also multiplies Himself Incarnate on thousands of altars.

There was no mention of any special meaning of the number 4,000 or 5,000 except for what I highlighted in John 6:1-13. I would take two guesses:

  • The number 1,000 in Hebrew may have a special meaning denoting some grouping
    of 4 or 5 or, but more probably
  • there were about 4,000 or 5,000 people the Scripture writer was referring to.

Remember though, back then, the male in the house had a much more important status than the wife and their children. He represented his family. So when you read there were 4,000 in number, they are probably counting only the male heads of households. There were probably closer to 6,000 or 7,500 people at each gathering.

Hope this helps,

Mike

John replied:

Hi, Abby —

It is also possible that there is no spiritual significance to the number whatsoever.

It could just be the number of people (most likely the men) that were counted in each event.

John

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