Dear Someone who has way too much time on his hands.,

Thanks for the question.

You wrote:
When we sin against a perfect God, it takes a perfection to forgive that sin.

You bring up a point that not many non-Catholic Christians ponder about.

Part of the reason is they do not distinguish between moral and venal sin. (1 John 5:16) For a Catholic, we meet That Perfection in Confession. That Perfection is Christ (in Fr. Tom, in Fr. Larry and in Fr. John). When we hear the words of (Fr. Tom, Fr. Larry or Fr. John), they may sound like their words, but it is actually Christ speaking through their bodies ontologically.

Ontology has to do with "the study of being".

If your question is from a philosophical view, which I think it is, then I would agree, there is a difference:

Christ is 100% {God/Divine} and 100% Man while we are 100% Man but we only partake in Divine nature through the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist. So it seems we have an unequal playing field. But this is why God became incarnate for mankind; so that an imperfect man, you, could go to another imperfect man, a priest, designated by God by divine calling, Holy Orders, and have your sins forgiven by (God/Christ) Himself. Jesus' acts of Incarnation and Redemption are acts of Mercy, for all mankind who avails themselves of the Lord's Church.

I would call it the "Deal of a life time!"

You wrote:
In the "Our Father", it says:

Let's look at what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says on the portion of the "Our Father" you have commented on.

It may help us in understanding the mind of the Church, especially in two key places:

You wrote:

• So why would I ask God to forgive, as I forgive, when as an imperfect creature, the best I can do is forgive imperfectly?

Because you are not dumb . . . most of the time . . . and know a good deal when you see it.

The deal: Forgive all friends and enemies who have hurt and injured you, past and present, and Our Blessed Lord through His priesthood will forgive you of your many sins. : )

Side note:
While we are on the issue of having perfect and imperfect contrition for our sins, it should be noted that for mortal sins:

(1) The sin must be of a grave matter
(2) one must have adequate knowledge, and
(3) one must commit it with deliberate consent (CCC:  1857–1859).

1. Inside Confession, an imperfect contrition will do.
2. Outside of Confession, like for our Protestant brethren, it will not.

• Under normal circumstances, for a mortal sin to be forgiven, it must be confessed in the Sacrament of Penance, but what happens if Confession to God through a priest is impossible — if, for instance, one is in danger of dying?

Provided a person in such a situation has:

• perfect contrition for his mortal sin
• resolves not to sin again, and
• resolves to receive sacramental Confession as soon as possible

their mortal sin will be forgiven.

Kudos to Catholic Answers for assistance. I hope this answers your question Mark.

If not, one of my other apologist friend(s) can, and usually does, follow-up on questions. Over the years, I've been very impressed with the quality of their answers.

When we need some pastoral help, local priest-friends have been willing to put in their two cents in as well.

Take care ugly, and come back if you have any other questions.

Tell the kids I said Hi!

Mike,
aka Uncle Michael

Dear Mark,

Your brother's answer was great.

• How can you beat the Catechism?

But there is one thing I would like to isolate, because I think it was part of your question.

I think you meant also to include the meaning "in the same way as" or "same degree" in the word "as" — in other words, how can we forgive sins of each other in the same way God forgives us. Our forgiveness is imperfect, His is perfect.

The short answer is, "We can't." Not on our own but we enter Christ's perfect prayer for forgiveness, which He has graciously made ours by Baptism, giving us His Holy Spirit who prays within us.

Every prayer and act we do as baptized Christians is joined to the prayer and act of Christ the High Priest. So if we rely on the grace of Christ, we will be able to become more and more like Him in our forgiveness. In the meantime, by relying on the grace of Christ, by desiring to forgive as God forgives, we are, in our will, already doing it in essence. We are deciding to let God's power of forgiveness live in us. It hurts like " h_ ll" sometimes, but as a helper in Reconciliation, (I help post-abortive people prepare for the Sacrament), I help people not only forgive others, but learn to accept God's forgiveness for themselves, and to do it thoroughly, i.e. to forgive themselves.

Sometimes pride keeps us from forgiving ourselves in the same way as God forgives us. We would really rather be in control through shame and self-punishment. It can be harder to let go of our own sins, than those of others. And sometimes I think we hold on to others' sins against us, because they are easier to face and bear than our own, and they provide a convenient way to avoid the pain of seeing ourselves. So it all comes down to what Mike and the Catechism say about mercy. We don't earn forgiveness, even by the quality of our forgiveness.

We just say, Yes, to mercy.

Mary Ann

Mark has a real point.

This prayer has a hook to it, a condition that perhaps we can't fulfill.

I could quibble with the idea that as imperfect creatures, we could *only* forgive imperfectly. After all, we aren't operating on our own unaided strength, but do have divine assistance. Our Lord wouldn't give us an assignment that's beyond the strength He gives.

When we're friends of God, friends of Jesus Christ, we are redeemed, and this redemption is not just an external imputation of righteousness (as in Luther's somewhat exaggerated expression: "snow on a dunghill"), but it is also a change that sanctifiesus interiorly. Our Lord lives in us: He makes us "sharers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4) and strengthens our good acts with the supernatural virtues He places in us. He enables us to perform acts that are truly virtuous and whole. He empowers us to forgive fully with the help of His Mercy.

We're called to do that, and occasionally we do; but alas, often we don't. We often don't cooperate fully with divine grace; we don't live up to the condition in that prayer, and yet we're stuck praying it, because that's what Jesus gave us to pray! He's revealing to us what the Father is like:

He is holy, mighty, immortal, and merciful.

We can live that mercy too, toward others, precisely because He is holy, mighty, and immortal.

— RC