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I'm afraid I have a serious problem. It's a logical one that goes back to the very beginning.
The argument goes as follows:
If God created the universe, who created God?
If no one created God, and if He has been here forever, then the rules of logic demand that the same can be said for the universe. The universe could have always existed, and it evolved as scientists would have us believe, based on facts and plausible scientific theory.
Do you see my problem?
How can I move forward with the idea that God created the universe etc. without first settling this simple issue?
Gordon
{
If God always existed and created the universe, couldn't the universe have always existed? }
Mike replied:
Hi, Gordon —
Thanks for the question.
God is the uncreated Creator of the universe; it's part of who He is. He created the universe.
He exists even outside of time.
198 Our profession of faith begins with God, for God is the First and the Last, (cf. Isaiah 44:6) the beginning and the end of everything. The Credo begins with God the Father, for the Father is the first divine person of the Most Holy Trinity; our Creed begins with the creation of Heaven and Earth, for creation is the beginning and the foundation of all God's works.
Maybe one of my colleagues can add a bit more to what I've said.
Mike
Gordon replied:
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the response.
When I read the words that you wrote, I see that the words God is the uncreated Creator is the same thing as saying:
"If no one created God, if He has been here forever, then the rules of logic demand that the same can be said for the universe.
The universe could have always existed, and it evolved as scientists would have us believe based on facts and plausible scientific theory."
My explanation is just a bit more wordy. That's my problem, not yours.
I would be happy to continue with you, but I'll leave it up to you. This issue is important to me,
and I will talk to whomever.
Gordon
John replied:
Gordon,
Here is where your struggle comes from. God is not limited by time and space. He invented both.
God simply is. He's not the Supreme being, He is being.
We think we live in a 3-dimensional world, but actually live in a (4th) fourth dimension as well —
the (4th) fourth dimension being time. We can only begin to imagine what it must be like to be outside of time.
It would be like someone who lived on a two dimensional plane trying to understand the third dimension of depth. They would only know (up and down) and (side to side). In and out or depth, would be concepts they could only visualize if there were some kind of shadow.
The same is true with us trying to understand what exists beyond or outside of time. We learn more and more about this as we study physics and study how time reacts to speed but I can't begin to explain this as I'm no scientist.
God transcends human logic, that's why it's a mystery. Everything can't be answered in a logical way for us. We are limited to the natural realm and the laws of nature that apply to it.
We can come to a certain knowledge of God by reason, but reason alone is not sufficient.
We also rely on Divine Revelation which tells us that God is Eternal and that He created both time and space.
John DiMascio
Paul replied:
Gordon,
Aquinas agreed with you that it is theoretically possible to conclude by reason alone that the universe could be eternal. However, as a Christian, He places faith over reason and concludes that God created it out of nothing, as stated in the Bible.
I personally have a hard time with the idea that the concrete universe could even possibly be eternal, but have no problem at all with God being eternal.
Why?
Because God is not a being, God is Being. The divine Name revealed by God in Exodus, Chapter 3 is I Am. He is personal by virtue of I , and limitless Being by virtue of Am with no qualifier after it. All creatures necessarily have adjectives after the term I am describing themselves.
I am tall means I'm not short. I am a man means I am not everything else. I have limits and boundaries that define my being. Not so with God. He not only has being, He is Being; limitless Being regarding time and space.
Time and space only relate to the created order, things that have being which, by their nature, change and move. God does neither. He simply IS, I Am. The ideas of here and there, as well as was and will be, are meaningless with God's essence, which is existence, whom transcends the created order including time and space.
Peace,
Paul
Eric replied:
Hi Gordon,
I think the key to this lays in the fact that God is not merely a Being among beings. He totally transcends creation, that is to say, He is outside of and distinct from it.
This is hard for finite beings like us to understand. All of space and time was created by Him, and you are a creature who lives in space, and so when you conceive of God, you probably tend to think of Him as a being like ourselves, only bigger but He's totally outside of creation; the concept of Him being created doesn't even factor into the equation.
Technically, God hasn't been here forever because that implies He is confined to time. He isn't. He's outside of time, as my colleague pointed out. He created the very concept of time.
He is, as they say, one pure act. There is no yesterday and tomorrow for Him; no sequence of events from His perspective.
By the way, scientists almost completely agree that the universe had a beginning. All the math points to that.
Eric
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