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This text informs us that the
punishment for sin is death. However,
if we choose Jesus Christ we will
be rewarded with the gift of life.
The gift of life is not rewarded
on a merit basis or on the basis
of how many people can pray you
out of Purgatory. No, the gift
of life is rewarded because of
Jesus. Simply accept Jesus. That
is all we can to do to receive
the gift of salvation.
God . . . who alone is
immortal and who lives in unapproachable
light, whom no one has seen or
can see. To Him be honor and might
and power forever and ever. Amen.
If I am not mistaken this text
preaches that God alone is immortal.
As such if when you die you go
to Purgatory then possibly on
to Heaven you cannot be immortal.
I'm assuming if you are in Heaven
you want to be alive or it is
just not worth the trip. As such
this text is in direct conflict
to Purgatory or so I think.
Listen, I tell you we will not
all sleep, but we will all be
changed ... at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound and
the dead will be raised imperishable
and we will be changed. For the
perishable must cloth himself
with the imperishable and the
mortal with the immortal.
This text lets us know when we
will become immortal and ready
to go to Heaven to live forever.
This will happen during the second
coming at the last trumpet sound.
Not before. Hence I am inclined
to believe that since we are not
immortal because only God is immortal
and we do not become immortal
until the last trumpet blows,
then when we die we cannot possibly
go anywhere other than the grave
because we
are mortal, and death
is death. It is not death for a little while,
then Purgatory, then possibly
Heaven.
For the living know that they
will die, but the dead know nothing;
they have no
further reward,
and even the memory of them is
forgotten. Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since
vanished; never
again will they have a part in
anything that happens under the
sun.
This text to me seems pretty straightforward.
The dead know nothing I can not
explain that in any simpler terms.
In addition they have no further
reward. Their reward does not
come until the second coming and
the dead in Christ rise and are
then caught together in the clouds
with the living righteous, then
they go to Heaven.
Not before, even though the idea
sounds very comforting especially
at funerals to tell a loved one:
"Oh
so and so is in Heaven right now".
It is not true.
Our friend Lazarus has fallen
asleep . . . so then he explained
to them simply he is dead.
Here Jesus likens death to sleep
when he is talking to the disciples.
This is why I feel death really
is a deep sleep where we know
nothing until we are awakened in
the Second Coming.
. . . the dead in Christ will rise
first. After that we who are still
alive will be caught up together
with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air.
So we will get to Heaven. That's
the great news!!!!!
However we have to wait until
He comes the second time. If we
are dead in Christ we will rise,
if we are alive on this day we
will join the dead in the clouds
and go to heaven together. That
is pretty awesome!!
Jack Perry replied:
Hi, John —
First, we need to summarize the true
doctrine of Purgatory.
We need to distinguish between justification
and sanctification.
Justification
is the joining of a person to the
Body of Christ; in Paul's legalistic
terms, it is that which we receive
when Christ's righteousness is imputed
to us. The Greek word used in connection
with this is diakosune, righteousness,
as in, God's righteousness. This
is usually what anti-Catholics mean
when they are talking about salvation.
It is the one and only requirement
for salvation, per se. This is why
an infant, once baptized, goes to
Heaven if he dies. For a fuller treatment
of justification, see this web page.
Salvation on the
other hand, involves sanctification
as well as justification. "Salvation" comes
from the Latin for healing, salus and
the Greek word used for salvation
in the New Testament is sozo (healing).
Sanctification is growth in holiness.
Christians are obliged to respond
to God's grace and to grow in holiness,
and God rewards us for these good
deeds. If your acquaintance needs
you to point to the Bible to prove
that, he is not very well-read in
Scripture. But, here are some examples:
Purgatory is not a means to salvation.
Whoever arrives in Purgatory is already
justified, and therefore, "saved" from
Hell. Purgatory is, rather a means
of sanctification; it is a healing
of the blindness of the soul so that
she can see her beloved Lord clearly
in Heaven (1 John 3:1-3). There is
simply no way to repay God for all
His gifts; there is no way to achieve
a break-even balance in "the
ledger", let alone a positive
one. (Luke 17:10) Purgatory is not
a question of a ledger of sins versus
good deeds; it is a question of orientation
and of healing.
For all sins committed after Baptism,
there is a corresponding punishment,
or purification. This is in spite
of the fact that God forgives our
sins; forgiveness and absence of
punishment are not the same thing.
See for example Psalm 99:8, where
God forgives the Israelites, although
He still punishes their misdeeds.
Punishment and forgiveness are not
mutually exclusive:
forgiveness puts
the offender back in communion with
the aggrieved,
while punishment is
a way of healing the offender's defect
that first caused the offense.
It
helps to see Purgatory as purification
for the elect who have not been purified
before death. This purification is
necessary since nothing impure may
enter the heavenly Jerusalem. (Revelation
21:7)
An excellent book to read on this
is St. Catherine of Genoa's Treatise
on Purgatory. An on-line version of the treatise can be found at:
This text informs us that the
punishment for sin is death. However,
if we choose Jesus Christ we will
be rewarded with the gift of life.
The gift of life is not rewarded
on a merit basis or on the basis
of how many people can pray you
out of Purgatory. No, the gift
of life is rewarded because of
Jesus. Simply accept Jesus. That
is all we can to do to receive
the gift of salvation.
The Catholic reply:
This passage is absolutely
correct; it is proper Catholic
doctrine. To be justified,
we must throw ourselves at
the feet of Jesus. There is
nothing else we can do but
respond to the grace offered
in Christ. This has no effect
whatsoever on the question
of Purgatory, since Purgatory
has nothing to do with justification;
the argument is irrelevant
to the question.
God . . . who alone is
immortal and who lives in unapproachable
light, whom no one has seen or
can see. To Him be honor and might
and power forever and ever. Amen.
If I am not mistaken this text
preaches that God alone is immortal.
As such if when you die you go
to Purgatory then possibly on
to Heaven you cannot be immortal.
I'm assuming if you are in Heaven
you want to be alive or it is
just not worth the trip. As such
this text is in direct conflict
to Purgatory or so I think.
The Catholic reply:
The incorrect interpretation
of this passage is the source
of your acquaintance's difficulty.
The interpretation is rather
extreme and in direct conflict
with John 14:25-26, as well
as the presence of the martyrs
at the throne of God before
the Resurrection: see Revelation
6:9-11 and 7:9-17. These scenes
occur before the first Resurrection
in Revelation 20:4-5 and the
second Resurrection in Revelation 20:11-15.
For the next three passages he has cited:
Listen, I tell you we will not
all sleep, but we will all be
changed ... at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound and
the dead will be raised imperishable
and we will be changed. For the
perishable must cloth himself
with the imperishable and the
mortal with the immortal.
This text lets us know when we
will become immortal and ready
to go to Heaven to live forever.
This will happen during the second
coming at the last trumpet sound.
Not before. Hence I am inclined
to believe that since we are not
immortal because only God is immortal
and we do not become immortal
until the last trumpet blows,
then when we die we cannot possibly
go anywhere other than the grave
because we
are mortal, and death
is death. It is not death for a little while,
then Purgatory, then possibly
Heaven.
For the living know that they
will die, but the dead know nothing;
they have no
further reward,
and even the memory of them is
forgotten. Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since
vanished; never
again will they have a part in
anything that happens under the
sun.
This text to me seems pretty straightforward.
The dead know nothing I can not
explain that in any simpler terms.
In addition they have no further
reward. Their reward does not
come until the second coming and
the dead in Christ rise and are
then caught together in the clouds
with the living righteous, then
they go to Heaven.
Not before, even though the idea
sounds very comforting especially
at funerals to tell a loved one:
"Oh
so and so is in Heaven right now".
It is not true.
Our friend Lazarus has fallen
asleep . . . so then he explained
to them simply he is dead.
Here Jesus likens death to sleep
when he is talking to the disciples.
This is why I feel death really
is a deep sleep where we know
nothing until we are awakened in
the Second Coming.
The Catholic reply:
The confusion your acquaintance
has, is caused by his understanding
that there is no soul that
lives apart from the body.
While in the Old Testament "the
dead know nothing", this
is not true in the New Testament.
. . . the dead in Christ will rise
first. After that we who are still
alive will be caught up together
with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air.
So we will get to Heaven. That's
the great news!!!!!
However we have to wait until
He comes the second time. If we
are dead in Christ we will rise,
if we are alive on this day we
will join the dead in the clouds
and go to heaven together. That
is pretty awesome!!
The Catholic reply:
See the previous answer.
I hope this helps; let me know if
you'd like more information.
Jack Perry
PhD Student (Computer Algebra) +
NCSU
John
replied:
I would clarify one thing.
Jack writes: We need to distinguish between justification
and sanctification. Justification
is the joining of a person to the
Body of Christ; in Paul's legalistic
terms, it is that which we receive
when Christ's righteousness is imputed
to us. The Greek word used in connection
with this is diakosune, righteousness,
as in, God's righteousness.
This is close but not altogether
true. Paul does say in Romans that
we are declared righteous diaskosune,
but this only appears to be legalistic
language to the Western mind. Remember,
Paul is a Jew, writing to Jewish
believers in Rome when he wrote this.
In the Semitic mind, when God declares
something, it is as good as done. Isaiah 55 says "God's word will
not return void but go forth and
accomplish that which He has purposed
it to do." So God declares us
righteous and infuses us
with the Righteousness of Christ;
it is not just imputed.
The difference between Catholic theology
and Classic Protestant theology of
Justification is that Protestants
have seen Paul's writing in light
of a juridical model whereas Catholics
and Orthodox have always viewed justification
in the "adoption" model.
In Protestant theology, justification
is a forensic declaration of acquittal.
In Catholic/Orthodox theology, justification
has been all that and an
intrinsic infusion of the life of
God.
Luther argued that justification
is like God throwing a pile of snow
on top of manure, whereas the Church
would say no, God is turning the
manure into snow.
So my one issue with Jack's reply
is that it seems to assume that Luther
and Calvin, both lawyers, were correct
in their legalistic understanding
of Paul, because Paul wrote using
legalistic terms.
I would argue that Paul is using
words that his original readers would
not interpret legalistically, especially
when you put the words in context
with the entirety of the Bible.
Overall, Jack does a good job in
setting some ground work, but he
does seem to perpetuate the idea
that Justification is a onetime event,
rather than an ongoing dynamic action
of the Holy Spirit, which begins
at Baptism. I don't think this was
his intent. He seems to be very orthodox.
John DiMascio
Mike
replied:
Hi, John —
I'd like to take a different approach and share with you my Catholic notes on this topic:
Catholic Notes:
When talking with friends and family about Purgatory, it's important they know the basics:
Purgatory does exist.
Purgatory is not a third place along with Heaven and Hell nor is it a second chance.
Purgatory has nothing to do with Limbo, which was only a theological opinion and was never a doctrine of the Church.
Souls in Purgatory have been saved just as much as the souls in Heaven.
Purgatory is like the Holy Hospital of Heaven.
Purgatory refers to a temporary state of purification for those who have
died in the state of grace but still need to get rid of any lingering imperfections
(venial sins, earthly attachments, self-will, etc.) before entering the perfection
of Heaven.
Purgatory has nothing to
do with one's justification or salvation. Those in Purgatory are justified; they are saved. Purgatory
has to do with one's personal holiness and the burning away of remaining self-love. Revelation
21:27 It's our personal holiness because each person uses their free will differently in life to make good or bad choices on our pilgrimage to our particular judgment.
The Scriptures tell us, Our God is a consuming fire. (Hebrews 12:29) We believe that All Consuming Fire is Our Very Lord Jesus Himself burning away all the self-love from our souls.
This article by Emily Stimpson from Our Sunday Visitor (osv.com) September 29, 2013 will also be helpful.
If you struggle to understand the Catholic view of Purgatory, this analogy may help:
Think of sin as a self-inflicted wound in your life.
When we physically hurt ourselves, many times we have to be brought to the hospital and the doctor or nurse will put an alcoholic disinfectant in our cut or wound. It will hurt ... a lot!!! but it's a good hurt; it's a holy hurt, that is needed to make us physically better.
We also have to distinguish between less severe physical injuries where we cut ourselves and require stitches and more severe injuries, like a NASCAR racing driver who gets into a major collision and ends up with third or fourth-degree burns over 90 percent of their body. There are varying degrees of damage that we do to our bodies, not only physically, but spiritually too!
Because Revelation tells us that nothing impure can enter Heaven (Revelation 21:27) and because God Himself is all Holy, we too, have to be all Holy to enter Heaven. To achieve this, any remaining self-inflicted spiritual wounds (meaning self-love) from our pilgrimage on earth has to be burned off, healed, and purified.
If our spiritual injuries are along the line of just needing stitches, that healing period where our self-love has to be burned off will be short;
but if our self-inflicted injuries are along the line of third or fourth-degree burns, the healing process will take longer.
Saints in the past have had private revelations from the souls in Purgatory. They, (the Holy Souls in Purgatory), have shared that, while the (healing|burning) fires of God's Love in Purgatory are painful (Hebrews 12:29, Exodus 3:1-6), at the same time they had an internal, burning joy because they knew they were being conformed to the image of God and their final destiny would be Total Union with Him.
Instead of the alcoholic disinfectant that the doctor gave us to heal our physical injuries so we can re-enter the Earthly world again, in Purgatory, we experience a holy, healing pain under Jesus' Care which purifies our souls and prepares us to enter Eternal Life with God who is all Holy. Our prayers and good works can also help the Holy Souls currently in Purgatory by 1.) purifying their souls and 2.) preparing them to enter Eternal Life with God, who is all Holy.
Interested in helping the Saved, Holy Souls in Purgatory?
Think of the number of saved Faithful Departed who have passed from this life to the next since 33 A.D.: many with major spiritual injuries. There's a lot! This is why praying for the Holy Souls in Purgatory is very important — and they can't wait to be purified for Heaven! (Revelation 21:27) If there are any Catholics (who live in the United States) reading this answer, who have a strong devotion to praying for the Holy Souls, check out my other website at:
I work with another colleague, Brian Bagley on this. Together we are trying to re-kindle this devotion among the lay faithful and Catholic clergy in praying for the Holy Souls and for those interested. We will send out a FREE Purgatory Prayer Program for you to get started.
It's true that the
word Purgatory doesn't appear in the
Bible (neither do the words Trinity, Incarnation or even Bible). Purgatory is a Latin word and, up until the beginning of the fifth century, Greek was the spoken language among the people. That said, Greeks weren't going to give us a Latin word. Nevertheless, you'll see the sentiments of the teachings on Purgatory from the Early Church Fathers and the Scriptures. What's important is not the word, but the doctrine.
That said, the doctrine of the final
purification of the elect, apart from Heaven or Hell, is clearly taught in both
the Old Testament and the New Testament as attested to in the following Scripture passages:
39 Next day, they came to find Judas (since the necessity was by now urgent) to have the bodies of the fallen taken up and laid to rest among their relatives in their ancestral tombs. 40 But when they found on each of the dead men, under their tunics, objects dedicated to the idols of Jamnia, which the Law prohibits to Jews, it became clear to everyone that this was why these men had lost their lives. 41 All then blessed the ways of the Lord, the upright judge who brings hidden things to light, 42 and gave themselves to prayer, begging that the sin committed might be completely forgiven. Next, the valiant Judas urged the soldiers to keep themselves free from all sin, having seen with their own eyes the effects of the sin of those who had fallen; 43 after this he took a collection from them individually, amounting to nearly two thousand drachmas, and sent it to Jerusalem to have a sacrifice for sin offered, an action altogether fine and noble, prompted by his belief in the resurrection. 44 For had he not expected the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead, 45 whereas if he had in view the splendid recompense reserved for those who make a pious end, the thought was holy and devout. Hence, he had this expiatory sacrifice offered for the dead, so that they might be released from their sin."
Note: Though this book was rejected by the Protestant reformers and therefore is not in Protestant Bibles, one cannot ignore the historical reality of this event and the reality of the words which were said.
