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                    | 
 Oliver Wellington
                      wrote:
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		       | Hi, guys — I would like to formally renounce my Baptism
                                       and membership in the Catholic Church. 
                                         What is the best way to do this?  I want any and all records destroyed. An official
     certificate of renunciation signed by a local
     bishop would be nice.   Thanks in advance! Oliver |  
               | { 
				What
                                       is the best way to formally renounce my Baptism
                                       and membership in the Catholic Church? } |  
| 
Eric
                                          replied:
 
    
      
      | Sorry to hear you feel this way,
                                                Oliver.  
                                                  Any particular reason for this
                                                       course of action? There is no way to have your sacramental
     documents destroyed, as they pertain
     to sacraments that cannot be repeated
     (except for marriage, which can't
     be repeated while your spouse is
     alive). The documents are needed
     as evidence to keep the sacraments
     in order. If you wish, you can write a letter
                                                to your local bishop renouncing your
                                                membership but, practically speaking,
                                                this will do nothing except make
                                                you feel better. You'll be subject
                                                to the same laws. (It would have freed you from Catholic
                                                law a few months ago but new rules
                                                went into effect.)
 I'd just make this comment: If you
                                                think the Catholic Church has power
                                                over you: requiring the release you
                                                are asking for, perhaps you believe
                                                in it more than you think.   Eric |  
   Mike
                                          replied: 
   
    
      
      | Hi, Eric —
 In this answer you said:If you wish,
                                                you can write a letter to your local
                                                bishop renouncing your membership
                                                but, practically speaking, this will
                                                do nothing except make you feel better.
                                                You'll be subject to the same laws.
                                                (It would have freed you from Catholic
                                                law a few months ago but new rules
                                                went into effect.)
 
                                                  What rules went into effect? Mike |  
   Eric
                                          replied: 
   
    
      
      | Hi, Mike —
 When the new Code of Canon Law was
                                                put into effect in 1983, it applied
                                                Catholic marriage law to those Catholics
                                                who had not left the Church by
                                                a formal act. That is to say,
                                                if you did not get married in the
                                                Church but had not left the Church
                                                by a formal act, the marriage was
                                                invalid; but if you had, you were treated
                                                as a Protestant. The trouble was, formal act was never defined, and
                                                there were some abuses or undesirable
                                                situations going on. So, a dubium
                                                was issued (I think that's the
                                                term) a few years ago which changed
                                                canon law to say that in order
                                                to be considered non-Catholic for
                                                purposes of canon law, you had to
                                                write a letter to your bishop renouncing
                                                the faith.
  This clarified what formal act meant, but in practice,
     it only screwed things up further
     since no one actually bothered doing
     this. Throwing up their hands in
     exasperation, a few months ago they
     changed the law again, this time
     saying that there was no way to be
     excused from the provisions of canon
     law once you became Catholic. Thus once you become Catholic, even
                                                  if you join a Protestant church or
                                                  become the most bitter atheist spewing
                                                  hateful invectives and blaspheming
                                                  Christ, your marriages will still
                                                  be invalid if they are conducted outside of
                                                the Catholic Church.
 Eric |  
   Oliver
                                          replied: 
   
   
   
   | You said:Sorry to hear
                                                you feel this way, Oliver.
 
                                                Any particular reason
                                                   for this course of action? As a teenager, I was sexually abused
                                                by my parish priest. Although I reported
                                                it then, nothing was ever done about
                                                it, despite the fact that the priest
                                                confessed to it. In fact, the bishop
                                                and his lawyers threatened me if
                                                I went public. The bishop removed
                                                the priest from his position only
                                                because he was forced to. To this
                                                day, he still defends that priest. That is the Church you believe in. Oliver
 |  
 Eric
                                          replied:
 
    
      
      | Oliver —
 What happened to you was terrible and
                                                should not have happened by any stretch
                                                of the imagination. The priest and
                                                bishop will have to answer for it
                                                on Judgment Day and they will pay
                                                a very harsh penalty indeed. Your
                                                feelings are understandable. But
                                                let me suggest this: Sexual abuse occurs in a wide range
                                                of occupations, from day care providers
                                                to teachers to policemen to relatives
                                                and so forth and is usually covered
                                                up and ignored, as in your case.
                                                Nevertheless, no one ever says: 
                                                I don't believe in the
                                                   public education system anymore
                                                   because a teacher abused me and
                                                   the administrators didn't believe
                                                   me.
 or
 
 I don't believe in families
                                                   anymore because my uncle abused
                                                   me. or what have you.
  yet, people say this about the Church.
                                                Why is that? It would be one thing if the doctrines
                                                of the Church taught that: 
                                                   sexual
                                                       abuse was good, or  priests should
                                                       not be questioned, or  what a
                                                       priest did was without sin 
 but that's
                                                       not what we believe.
 What happened
                                                  to you was wrong by Catholic standards.
                                                  No one ever said that there would
                                                  not be sinners in the Church. The
                                                  fact that one Church leader sins
                                                  doesn't disprove the whole Church
                                                  and its 2,000 year history. It has
                                                  been so from the beginning. Among
                                                  the first twelve bishops, two committed
                                                  grievous sins. One betrayed the Lord.
                                                  Another denied him. (And he was the first pope!) If you're
                                                  looking for sinless people you're
                                                  looking in the wrong place. (Let
                                                  me know when you find them.) This is not to minimize your pain
     or justify what was done. What was
     done to you was not justifiable.
     But just as I do not renounce my
     U.S. citizenship because one or two
     politicians do something wrong, the
     fact a bishop and priest grievously
     erred doesn't mean you should renounce
     the Church.  It will, I expect, require heroic
                                                effort to get over this fact but
                                                you should at least give it serious
                                                consideration, because your soul
                                                is at stake. Eric |  
   Oliver
                                          replied: 
   
   
   
   | OK, so you don't believe a higher
                                                standard should be expected of the
                                                Catholic Church?  That's encouraging! So we should
                                                all lower our expectations of priests
                                                and of bishops: 
                                                   who claim to be on the side
                                                       of God himself! who claim moral authority! who claim to advocate for those
                                                       wronged!
 
 We should expect them to behave
                                                       no better than a common criminal?  I don't hear principals, teachers,
                                                  day care providers claiming the high
                                                  ground and lecturing everyone about
                                                  morality.  
                                                In that case, why should anyone
                                                   choose the Church, when they could
                                                   just as well join NAMBLA and get
                                                   the same results?Normal people everywhere know
                                                   that this is wrong, so why should
                                                   we have to wait until Judgment
                                                   Day to hold the perpetrators
                                                   and their protectors accountable?  The very men who are responsible
                                                for this are still in office, and
                                                you're still kissing their rings.
                                                People like you are one of the reasons
                                                the abuse has flourished.  You make me sick. Oliver  |  
 Eric
                                          replied:
 
    
      
      |  Oliver — I'm not saying there shouldn't be
                                                a higher standard; you are quite
                                                right, there should be.  I'm saying
                                                  that the fact that some priests fail
                                                  at that high standard — and
                                                  I guarantee you they will — doesn't
                                                  prove that the whole religion is
                                                  wrong, bogus, or illegitimate. The
                                                  two are not connected.  No matter how high your standard,
                                                no matter how important the person,
                                                someone violating it doesn't prove
                                                God doesn't exist. It doesn't prove
                                                the Catholic Church is not the Church
                                                Christ founded and it doesn't prove
                                                Catholicism is wrong. All it proves
                                                is that priests are sinners, just
                                                like us, which the Church will gladly
                                                grant you.  While your feeling is certainly understandable,
                                                allowing ourselves to be consumed
                                                with anger or hate against anyone
                                                just turns us into empty shells of
                                                men and deprives us of joy. Someone
                                                once said that holding a grudge is
                                                like drinking poison and waiting
                                                for the other person to die.  While I suspect the term grudge doesn't
                                                do justice to what you feel, the
                                                same principle applies. I hope you can find a place in your
                                                heart for some measure of forgiveness;
                                                if not for the perpetrator, then
                                                for the Church; if not for someone
                                                else's sake, for your own. Eric
 |  
   Oliver
                                          replied: 
   
   
   
   | Eric, You insist on using the word sinner,
                                                  when they are criminals. It's more
                                                  than a sin when a child
                                                  is raped. Until Church officials
                                                  take responsibility and are held
                                                  accountable, they are not of Christ,
                                                  and neither is your Church.  As far as I am concerned, until those
                                                responsible are forced out, the faithful are
                                                also responsible and holding others
                                                responsible for such crimes doesn't
                                                mean that forgiveness is absent.                                                 I just want to make it fully official
                                                  that I reject my membership in your
                                                  organization and that I have good
                                                  reason to do so.  Oliver |  
 Mike
                                          replied:
 
    
      
      | Hi, Oliver —
 This is from the Vatican web site.
                                                You may find it helpful. Hope this helps, Mike 
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