Alexander Pamphilis wrote: |
Hi, guys —
- When I gave my life to Christ, He said He would never leave me or forsake me so does that mean:
- He will go to Purgatory with me, or
- Will He go back on his Word and leave me there alone?
- God keeps a record of wrongs, so who decides when you get out and how is it determined?
Hebrews 1:3 says, “He Himself purged all our sin.” (Hebrews 1:3)
- The Church teaching on Purgatory contradicts the Scripture, so which is right?
Alexander
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{ When I gave my life to Christ and He said He wouldn't leave me, will He go to Purgatory with me? } |
Eric replied:
Alex,
Pope Benedict XVI wrote in Spe Salvi:
"Some recent theologians are of the opinion that the fire which both burns and saves is Christ himself, the Judge and Savior. The encounter with him is the decisive act of judgement. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms and frees us, allowing us to become truly ourselves. All that we build during our lives can prove to be mere straw, pure bluster, and it collapses. Yet in the pain of this encounter, when the impurity and sickness of our lives become evident to us, there lies salvation. His gaze, the touch of his heart heals us through an undeniably painful transformation “as through fire”. But it is a blessed pain, in which the holy power of his love sears through us like a flame, enabling us to become totally ourselves and thus totally of God. In this way the inter-relation between justice and grace also becomes clear: the way we live our lives is not immaterial, but our defilement does not stain us forever if we have at least continued to reach out towards Christ, towards truth and towards love.
Indeed, it has already been burned away through Christ’s Passion. At the moment of judgement we experience, and we absorb the overwhelming power of his love over all the evil in the world and in ourselves. The pain of love becomes our salvation and our joy."
Benedict XVI, Spe Salvi #47 (Vatican City: Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 2007) |
What he doesn't mention is that, (he is the theologian he's referring to) (acting in a private capacity, not as pope). So definitely, Christ is present in Purgatory — in fact his Presence is why it is so painful!
Scripture also says,
"For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw — each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire."
(1 Corinthians 3:11–15) |
Here we have the image of fire on the Day of Judgment, and work being burned up to suffer loss, "though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire". He's saved, so he's not going to Hell, but only as through fire, with useless work burned up.
It's not that God keeps a record of wrongs. It's that our imperfections and areas that we are unholy, that we did not surrender to Christ, are within us, and when we face judgment, they are all exposed, both to us and to God. Because we love God, and these unholy areas of our lives keep us from him, we'll want to be purified of them, and that will be painful.
All we know for sure about Purgatory is that it exists, and that the faithful there can be helped by our prayers. Presumably God decides when you are done being purified, or maybe we do. I'd argue that it's determined when all attachment to sin and creatures is utterly removed and detached, so that we love God 100% above all things and have no more dependence on the world, on creatures, or any desire to sin.
Let's look at Hebrews 1:3-4:
"When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs."
Hebrews 1:3-4 |
This doesn't say what you claim. You said, "he purged all our sins". The verse says, "when he had made purification for sins". There is a difference.
The Greek is καθαρισμὸν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ποιεῖσθαι bring about purification from sin.
(Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker, Walter Bauer, and F. Wilbur Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000, p. 489).
The fact that you and I still sin, and the fact that people who are not saved exist, is proof that while Christ made us for purification, the purification has yet to be completely applied to our lives — otherwise we would not sin. Christ made purification, but we have to accept that purification by faith in all aspects and dark corners of our lives. We can't just say "Hey, Jesus purged my sins." and continue living like we were. Every aspect of our lives must be faithful to Christ and surrendered to him; it's not a one-and-done matter.
Even Jesus says,
"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:14–15)
Forgiveness on an ongoing basis is contingent on what we do. So, he did not "purge all our sins" in the sense of exempting everyone who once "gave his life to Christ" from judgment. We have to invite Christ into all parts of our lives every day, in everything we are and do.
"We know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who do such things.
- Do you suppose, O man, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God?
- Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience?
- Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury."
(Romans 2:2–8) |
I'd encourage you to check out:
Eric Ewanco
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Bob replied:
Dear Alexander,
Thank you for the questions. To consider your inquiries let us examine St. Paul’s writing to the Corinthians:
10 According to the commission of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble — 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
(1 Corinthians 3:10-15, RSVCE) |
Paul sees our life within the context of God’s will, either fulfilling His will or our own will.
Paul sees our life within the context of God’s will, either fulfilling it or our own. When we “build” according to God’s will, we enhance His kingdom. When we serve ourselves, we build something that will ultimately fail and needs to be burned away. He uses the image of fire to consume our selfishness. This is the Catholic sense in a nutshell, and why fire is so often used to image purgation or “Purgatory” — not so much a place as the state of being purged. So, Christ doesn't abandon us, he is the one who, with the Holy Spirit, consumes the straw of our selfishness and purifies us. This happens in the passage to Heaven, only for the saved. He cannot abandon us because He is responsible for seeing our purification through. Likewise, He can apply all the work of the Saints in Heaven and on earth to those whom He chooses to hasten that process, because His Body the Church is intimately connected to his work in every respect, and intercessory prayer is also key.
Consider how salvation comes to many through the instrumentality of those members of His Body. (Christ could speak to every person on the planet directly, but instead he uses others as his agents and members). We are the only Gospel many will hear. And so this principle of cooperation with God’s grace in serving the Church not only applies to bringing salvation to the world, but teaching, healing, comforting, feeding and every other ministry. So, you are not alone in Purgatory, you have the assurance of salvation and the promise that Christ will complete His work in you so that you will become perfect in every respect. You will not bring your faults or your garbage into Heaven. No one sins in Heaven, not because they are automatons and have no free will, but because they have been so perfected in Christ they cannot sin any more than He could.
Consider the angels: good angels never sin, but they could have at one time and many did, hence the demons. But angels are free, not robots. So, it will be for us, completely free, but we will be complete in the sense that we have become infused with the goodness of God. Justification and sanctification are inextricably linked, not like Luther’s “snow covered dung hills,” but rather purified beings fully in the image of God, like those good angels, but a different species. To be fully human is to have a resurrected body and spirit in the fullness of God’s grace and freedom. That is something that angels do not possess, and why the incarnation is so spectacular.
So, to your other points. God decides by virtue of the completion of His Work in us (not just some abstract sense of “finished” work on Calvary — that has yet to be applied to individuals) when we proceed to Heaven, and His providence is sufficient to make that determination.
- And as stated above, God does the purging of our sin through His purgation, so where is the contradiction? <There is none.>
Let me ask you this:
- Does God work in your life?
- How fast?
- Does He go faster or slower?
- What determines that?
- Is it your cooperation with His grace?
- Does your willingness to let God work in your life affect the pace at which He moves?
If so, think about the immense benefit of Purgatory. Because God has immense patience with you, even if you progress like a snail in the His plans for you because you are a stubborn ignorant fool, He will still proceed, albeit slowly, and even in your death will finish what He started so you can enter Heaven and be everything He intended for you to be.
Think on that for a while and praise God.
The other option is to be fully a saint now, let Him have his way completely in us so we stop resisting His grace, and die without attachment to our petty sins. We could love like Him, forgive like Him, be another Christ in the world, be His hands and feet without counting the cost. And yes, He has perfected many in this way: the Church has an honor roll of His handiwork in many members we call the Communion of the Saints. They are great examples of how we are supposed to respond to God’s grace and let Him finish His work in us a lot quicker, obviating the need for further purgation.
Peace,
Bob Kirby
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