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I have one question that has been on my mind for a while now:
How can a Father (or Priest), forgive someone their sins, when in actuality the only person that can forgive sins at all, and in their entirety, is The Father of all Creation Himself: God, the Father?
Can you help me understand Catholic teaching in this area?
To be fair, I should tell you that I am not a Catholic, but a Methodist, but still don't understand this simply act of contrition.
Can you explain it to me, in a way that I can understand?
Thanks in advance,
Darren
{
How can a priest forgive sins when only God can; and wasn't it just coincidence Peter spoke up? }
Mary Ann replied:
Dear Darren —
You are right that only God forgives sins. Jesus Christ is God, and He forgives sins. The Holy Spirit is God, and He forgives. Jesus breathed the Spirit into the Twelve Apostles and commanded them to forgive sins, saying He would forgive sinners when they did this:
19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. 21 Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them,
Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
The Church passes on this gift of the Spirit in ordination. Through ordination Christ acts through the priest in the sacraments. All Catholics receive the Spirit in Baptism and Confirmation, and so we all can baptize, if necessary, and we can all:
live in Christ's life and offer a sacrifice of praise in union with Him, and
be prophets of truth by His Spirit.
We also can perform marriage in Christ; the couple is the minister of Marriage.
Nevertheless, the Apostles received a special gift on Easter, which they pass on. This gift simply means that Christ acts in them, when they do as Christ commands:
forgive sins
consecrate bread and wine
impart the Spirit
ordain in the Spirit, and
pray for the sick.
Mary Ann
Mike replied:
Hi, Darren —
I just wanted to add two cents to what Mary Ann has said.
When she says,Jesus Christ is God, this should be understood within the context that the Catechism puts it:
The Father revealed by the Son
.
.
242 Following this apostolic tradition, the Church confessed at the first ecumenical council at Nicaea (325) that the Son is consubstantial with the Father, that is, one only God with Him. (The English phrases of one being and one in being translate the Greek word homoousios, which was rendered in Latin by consubstantialis) The second ecumenical council, held at Constantinople in 381, kept this expression in its formulation of the Nicene Creed and confessed:
"the only-begotten Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father".
(Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed; cf. DS 150)
So when Our Lord forgives through his priests, these actions are one with God, the Father
in forgiving all sins.
Hope this helps,
Mike
Darren replied:
Mike —
Thanks for getting back and adding to what Mary Ann had stated in her answer. I do appreciate it, I really do, but with both answers I have another question, and this is probably one of the reasons why I'll never convert from being a Methodist to being a Catholic. — I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being a Catholic, it's just that I don't understand some of the major points in the whole scheme of things here.
Both you and Mary Ann stated that the Holy Spirit, being part of the Trinity, can also forgives sins, as does Jesus Christ, and God, the Father. Well, here I'll have to agree to disagree with you because I was brought up believing the Holy Spirit is in fact the mouthpiece of God. What He wants for us is beneficial for us to know. God says this through the Holy Spirit Himself and because, in general, anything that comes out of the Mouth of God that He wants us to know, He gives to the Holy Spirit to instruct us in the way we should go.
I mean this in general, because there are times indeed when God, the Father, Himself will directly speak in our lives, or send us angels along our path for a specific purpose. You see, I don't believe and have never believed that the Holy Spirit Himself can or does forgive any sins committed by us. The only person that can and does forgive sins is God, the Father, and Jesus Christ Himself.
Similarly, I don't believe in the principle that Peter was the first Pope of the Catholic Church just because Jesus gave him the Keys to the Kingdom as stated in Matthew 16:18-19.
What I do believe though is that Christ Himself was indeed talking to and trying to get the spiritual principle across to the disciples concerning His Divine Nature, which was indeed the important thing here. In doing so, Peter spoke up first but any of the others could have answered.
Peter just happened to be the first so, in essence, the Church could have had any of the other disciples head the Church, but here Peter just happened to speak up first. That's my opinion, and the Catholic Church has theirs, as well, and I respect that, I really do.
Thanks a lot, and I hope to hear back from you soon. Until then, have a great weekend.
— Darren
Mike replied:
Hi, Darren —
Thanks for the reply.
I would agree that we have a major difference of opinion on the basic tenet of Christianity: the Blessed Trinity.
These paragraphs may help you to at least understand the Catholic view of what we believe:
253The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity". (Council of Constantinople II (553): (DS) Denzinger-Schonmetzer 421) The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God." (Council of Toledo XI (675): DS 530:26) In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature." (Lateran Council IV (1215): DS 804)
254The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary." (Fides Damasi: DS 71) "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son." (Council of Toledo XI (675): DS 530:25) They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds." (Lateran Council IV (1215): DS 804) The divine Unity is Triune.
255The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance." (Council of Toledo XI (675): DS 528) Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship." (Council of Florence (1442): DS 1330) "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son." (Council of Florence (1442): DS 1331)
256 St. Gregory of Nazianzus, also called the Theologian, entrusts this summary of Trinitarian faith to the catechumens of Constantinople:
Above all guard for me this great deposit of faith for which I live and fight, which I want to take with me as a companion, and which makes me bear all evils and despise all pleasures: I mean the profession of faith in the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. I entrust it to you today. By it I am soon going to plunge you into water and raise you up from it. I give it to you as the companion and patron of your whole life. I give you but one divinity and power, existing one in three, and containing the three in a distinct way. Divinity without disparity of substance or nature, without superior degree that raises up or inferior degree that casts down. . . the infinite co-naturality of three infinites. Each person considered in himself is entirely God. . . the three considered together. . . I have not even begun to think of unity when the Trinity bathes me in its splendor. I have not even begun to think of the Trinity when unity grasps me. . .
As for whether Peter was the first Pope, with due respect, I think you are overlooking two key verses (17 and 18) of the Scriptures:
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?" 14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 And Jesus answered him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in Heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rockI will build MY Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven." 20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
You said: It's just that I don't understand some of the major points in the whole scheme of things here.
I would encourage you to consider buying a cheap copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church to learn everything we believe as Catholics and understand those major points of view in the whole scheme of things . . . plus with the advent of new technology there are now more and cheaper ways to read the Catechism.
Hope this helps,
Mike
John replied:
Darren —
When Christ gave Peter the Kingdom, he spoke using the singular tense. He didn't speak in the plural tense.
The you is singular in the Greek and in the Greek there are both singular and plural words.
17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in Heaven.
Jesus is also paraphrasing Isaiah 22. Most Protestant Study Bibles will also cross reference Matthew 16 and Isaiah 22; in particular, the section on the keys. In Isaiah 22, the key is taken from one prime minister and given to another by God and succession is established. The language is very, very, similar. The Apostles hearing this, Peter hearing this, and the Jews reading Matthew's account of the Gospel, would have all understood that Peter was being given authority that none of the others had.
15 Thus says the Lord GOD of hosts, "Come, go to this steward, to Shebna, who is over the household, and say to him: 16 What have you to do here and whom have you here, that you have hewn here a tomb for yourself, you who hew a tomb on the height, and carve a habitation for yourself in the rock? 17 Behold, the LORD will hurl you away violently, O you strong man. He will seize firm hold on you, 18 and whirl you round and round, and throw you like a ball into a wide land; there you shall die, and there shall be your splendid chariots, you shame of your master's house. 19 I will thrust you from your office, and you will be cast down from your station. 20 In that day I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, 21 and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. 22 And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. 23 And I will fasten him like a peg in a sure place, and he will become a throne of honor to his father's house. 24 And they will hang on him the whole weight of his father's house, the offspring and issue, every small vessel, from the cups to all the flagons. 25 In that day, says the LORD of hosts, the peg that was fastened in a sure
place will give way; and it will be cut down and fall, and the burden that was upon it will be cut off, for the LORD has spoken."
In fact, later in chapter 18, the authority to bind and loose (make decisions, discern doctrine, and impose pastoral disciplines) was given to the whole Church:
18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven. Matthew 18:18
but in Matthew 16, Peter alone was vested with the keys and unique authority to bind and loose on behalf of the Church.
John
Darren replied:
John
Thanks for the clarification. I do appreciate it.
— Darren
John replied:
Hi, Darren —
No problem!
I used to be a Protestant Minister. I tried looking at that text a ton of different ways, but when
I started reading the writings of the Church Fathers from the first three centuries, there was almost universal acceptance that Peter was the one given primacy. Even the Eastern Fathers, who tended not to give as much authority to Rome, all admitted that Peter was chief among the Apostles.
To be frank, the only thing that keeps the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholics separate is that we can't agree on the jurisdiction of the Pope. They don't even deny that the Bishop of Rome is the successor of Peter.
These two Churches are really the only Churches that can trace their way back to the Apostles.
We both have seven sacraments
We both believe in the Communion of Saints
We both believe that the faithful departed can pray for us and we can pray for them, not to be saved, but to be purified — there being a huge difference.
When we pray for faithful departed we pray for those who are saved put have not been fully sanctified in this life and, if you need it, I can give you some Scripture passages that attest to this.
My point is that these are the Ancient Churches which really belong under one roof. They have been having this family squabble for the last 1,000 years and, if you ask me, I'd say it's pretty silly.
Nevertheless, the Church was up and running for 350 years before we even had an official list of books that belonged in the Bible. We didn't have a canon or official list of books until 382 A.D. at the Council of Rome. This was later ratified in 387 A.D. at the councils of Hippo and Carthage.
The Church functioned with Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and a Teaching Authority but it was the Teaching Authority of the Church, based on Sacred Tradition, that discerned, binding and loosing, what books belonged in the Bible, and which books did not. That's how we know there are only four inspired Gospels while the Gospel of Thomas is a forgery and a heresy.
We also know what Epistles belong in the canon of Scripture and which ones don't. There are hundreds of early Christian writings that many Christians loved to read and some were treated like Scripture for the first three centuries.
the Epistle of Barnabas
the Shepherd of Hermas, and
the Didache
come to mind right away but it took the Church to say:
Look, these are good reading, but they aren't Scripture.
So if you are going to trust the Bible, you need to trust the Church that gave you the Bible.
God Bless,
John
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