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Al Foytek following-up from a previous posting
wrote:
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Hi, Mike —
Thank you for summarizing and taking an interest
in answering. I am still struggling with this.
I continue to research, but I must say I liked John's answer better than yours — at
least as
I understood it but I am looking for a consensus. I
do not want to violate the Catholic Church's
Communion doctrine.
I do have doubts, but not about morals; I
believe the Catholic Church is right on there.
I read their position on these things and
it rang as true to the core; similar to when
I first read the Sermon on the Mount. I have
made changes in my life over them and strictly
follow these to the best of my ability.
It's other stuff, like:
- indulgences
- infallibility of the Pope
- Mary being:
- Queen of Heaven
- Immaculate, and
- Assumed bodily into Heaven that I struggle with.
- I also do not believe the Holy Spirit
proceeds from the Lord Jesus, but is of
the Father,
as Jesus Himself is.
- There are other issues too, like Holy
Days of Obligation, and
- the whole concept of the Church hierarchy
defining sin by not doing certain religious
practices.
These are not based on God's commandments
or, at best, only seem to be loosely based: i.e. derived via a circuitous theological
analysis. Jesus said the law is fulfilled
in two commandments:
- loving God with all ones heart, mind,
soul and strength, and
- loving our neighbor as our self. (Luke 10:27)
- How does this other stuff become sin?
<It seems pharisaical.>
- Mike, you mentioned that the third Commandment
should not be ignored, but don't Catholics
ignore it since they do not celebrate it
on the Sabbath, i.e. the last day of the
week?
That commandment is for rest on the seventh
day, not a demand to go to a worship service
or church on the first day of the week. In
fact, since I live nearly an hour's drive
from the nearest Catholic parish, one might
say going to Church is work for me (as
it is) and breaking of the commandment;
half a day is gone just in attending a service.
Believing something is largely an intellectual
endeavor, for me. I examine the evidence and
make a decision. I'm no scholar of ancient
history. I do not read Greek or Hebrew. I
rely on translated resources, language dictionaries,
and other references but I do read both sides
of the issues and read multiple translations
when they exist. I also look to secular history
and support for various positions.
I appreciate what you all are doing. Thank
you!
God Bless,
Al
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{
Can
a Catholic receive Holy Communion if they
don't believe all that the Church proposes? (Part 2) }
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Mike
replied:
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Hi, Al —
I'm not surprised that my colleagues
reply with answers better than mine;
I have a strong team and
I learn a lot from them.
On the Sabbath:
My colleague Eric addressed that
issue in this posting:
You can find the writings of Justin
Martyr on the web or you can read
it from this
site.
Although I can't empathize with the
long commute you have, I do know
the spiritual benefits of attending
Sunday Mass and receiving the Blessed
Sacrament, in a state of grace, will
really help in being able to make
correct decisions during the week.
You said:
. . . one might say
going to Church is work for me (as
it is) and breaking of the commandment;
half a day is gone just in attending
a service.
Well, there are 168 hours in a week.
Even if it did take you 12 hours
to attend Sunday services,
it would be only 7% of your whole
week. Think if it like food.
- Could you ever go seven days without
food or drink?
- If not, why starve your soul
for one week, or Heaven forbid,
more than one week.
As far as the other issues you mentioned,
I would get a copy of Karl Keating's, Catholicism
and Fundamentalism.
Mike
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Al
replied:
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Thank you Mike,
I am so sorry my brother, surely
I did not mean to imply anyone's
answers were better than yours, only
that I liked their implications better.
Your reply gives me no admittance
to Holy Communion if I doubt Catholic
Church doctrines and
I do. I could be wrong, but my doubts
are there and I cannot just remove
them.
While I have reasonable trust for
the hierarchy in the Catholic Church
now, at
times, it has been very corrupt, even here in the U.S. — According
to Fr. Corapi, there are many in
high places, even now, who should
not be there. There is:
- the schism
- atrocities of the Crusades
- the sacking of Constantinople — where
Christian brothers were killed
- the inquisition
- the recent scandals of sex abuse
and cover-ups, and
- many other things in, and
out of, the Vatican.
I just see another very flawed organization — like
every one I have ever seen men in
charge of. The fact that the Catholic
Church still exists today is a testament
to God's will. I don't know whether
the Church ever promulgated any incorrect
doctrine on faith and morals — they
may have, then covered it up in later
centuries. The corruption in the
Church from time to time seems to
support such an expectation.
I very much appreciate your work,
on my behalf, to answer unanswered
questions. I study each reply I get.
Our parish priest is so busy I cannot
get replies from him.
Karl's
book was the first one I read.
I have since read ones from:
I've also learned much from:
- web sites like New
Advent -
the Catholic Encyclopedia and
- videos that Dr. Hahn made on
Mariology related subjects.
I bought the Ignatius
Press New Testament Commentary and
am currently reading it with notes.
I have read the Bible through multiple
times, but with a Protestant bias
and commentaries.
I find there are different ways to spin many verses.
I use New
Advent and some Protestant
sites for the writings of the Early
Church Fathers. Thank you for you
and your team's replies. Reading
these, on top of other evidence,
convinced me that Protestants are
wrong about the Eucharist not really
being Our Lord.
I agree with Eric's conclusion, Re:
Sunday. My point in saying what I
did is that the Third Commandment
cannot be used by the Catholic Church,
or anyone (like the Seventh Day Adventists),
to say we are commanded to go to
a church, service, or anything else
on a certain day — as the Catholic
Church does.
I agree that seven days is a long
time to not enjoy Christian community,
God's word, and being focused on
our Lord. I have not received Holy
Communion for 50 years, and, it seems
I am not close to doing so now. Going
to Mass is humbling since I imagine
the stares we get by people wondering
what awful sin is preventing me from
receiving Holy Communion.
The things I don't believe, I
could be wrong about — I
am no theologian, historian, etc.
- I could trust in the Church now,
but how about the future?
- Doesn't Communion include trusting
all future pronouncements too?
Thus, it is not enough to believe
they are right now, but that the
Church will always be right.
I suppose this goes back to my doubts
on the infallibility of all Popes
past, present, and future.
Thank you again Mike — your
reply has given me some hope as did
John's. I will keep studying and
perhaps the doubts will be removed.
God Bless,
Al
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Paul
replied:
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Hello Al,
I'd like to take a shot at a couple
things in your paragraph here:
You said:
It's other stuff, like:
- indulgences
- infallibility of the Pope
- Mary being:
- Queen of Heaven
- Immaculate, and
- Assumed bodily into Heaven that I struggle with.
- I also do not believe the Holy Spirit
proceeds from the Lord Jesus, but is of
the Father, as Jesus Himself is.
- There are other issues too, like Holy
Days of Obligation, and
- the whole concept of the Church hierarchy
defining sin by not doing certain religious
practices.
These are not based on God's commandments
or, at best, only seem to be loosely based: i.e. derived via a circuitous theological
analysis. Jesus said the law is fulfilled
in two commandments:
- loving God with all ones heart, mind,
soul and strength, and
- loving our neighbor as our self. (Luke 10:27)
- How does this other stuff become sin?
<It seems pharisaical.>
When it comes to papal infallibility,
the Immaculate Conception, and Mary's
Assumption,
a question you might ask is:
- Did Christ give His Church the
Holy Spirit to inerrantly teach
In His Name, the truths relating
to salvation, or not?
The Church's identity as Christ's
Body means the Holy Spirit is the
soul leading its Body to follow its
Head into Heaven. If Christ did not
promise that the Holy Spirit would
infallibly ensure that we could have
the truth and grace that leads to
salvation (Matthew 16:13-19) then Heaven's gate that
Christ's sacrifice opened would mean
very little to us.
Church precepts such as days of obligation
also relate to this belief that Christ
through His Spirit gives His Church
His own authority to govern. Hence,
in these matters of authority and
infallibility we don't trust in men,
but rather in the promise of Christ
Himself and the power of the Spirit
He gives to form, animate, and guide
His Body, the Church. This is not
at all pharisaical. Scripture itself
states (at the end of John's gospel) that
not all truths of Christ are explicitly
stated in the Bible. (John 21:25) The Holy Spirit
deepens the Church's understanding
of the Word through the centuries
through the authority that Christ
established in Peter and the Apostles
(today's Pope and Bishops). When
we reject Christ's authority, we
reject Christ.
As for the Holy Spirit proceeding
from the Father and the Son, consider
the analogy of a married couple.
- One could say their child proceeds
from the father and the mother
as their personified love.
- You could also say the child
proceeds from the act of the father.
Both statements are true. So too,
one could say:
- The Holy Spirit proceeds from
the Father and the Son as the
love between them;
but it could also be fair to say:
- that the Spirit proceeds from
the Father.
One compromise proposed is the
Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father
through the Son.
That, of course, is reflected in
the family, in that the child comes
into being from
the act of the father through the
mother.
Regardless of which terminology is
used, it is safe to say that there
is nothing theologically incorrect
about saying that the Holy Spirit
proceeds from the Father and the
Son.
Peace,
Paul
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John
replied:
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Hi, Al
The issue of the Filioque, that is:
the Holy Spirit proceeding
from the Father and the Son
only from the Father
boils down to focus.
Scripture teaches both. In some places,
Jesus says He will send the Advocate. Elsewhere
He says He will ask the Father to
send the Spirit. In John, Jesus breathes
on the Apostles and says: Receive
the Holy Spirit. (John 20:22-23)
The Filioque was made part of the Creed in a local council of Toledo and it was done for good reason. The
West was plagued with various strains
of the Arian Heresy. It would not
die. Hence, we see the development
of the Rosary which emphasized the
Incarnation, the Hail Mary which
did the same — but added more
emphasis on Jesus being God in the
Womb of the Virgin Mary, and the
Council of Toledo adding the Filioque.
The East didn't reject it (at first) on its merits. Rather,
they got twisted because it was a
local Western Council that implemented it
and Rome approved it without input
from the East. The East may have
worded it differently, after all,
they have a different approach. I
spoke with some Armenian Apostolic
priests (Monophysites). They
said they omit it because it's not
part of original creed,
but they would say the
Spirit, proceeds from the Father,
through the Son. So the
Ancient East expressed the same truth
in different ways.
In the Catholic Church, the Western
Church uses the filioque but
the Eastern Church doesn't.
That tells you, right there, it's
not a real source of division.
John
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Mary
Ann replied:
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Al,
Keep receiving the Eucharist and
praying for light, while you adhere
with your will, if not your mind, to the teachings of the Church.
God's grace is in the sacraments,
and He knows the doubts. We all have
doubts. Just be sure that you are
not demanding to understand everything
first, because God's revelation is
beyond our understanding. Also be
sure that you are not making yourself
a sort of Pope, yourself.
God bless.
Mary Ann
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Al
replied:
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Excellent point!
- Am I making myself a pope?
I see the need for authority — it
rings out like an air raid siren whenever
I listen to Protestant preachers
contradict each other and God's Word.
I have been looking to the Catholic
Church for a long time on issues
not decided within my circle of Christianity.
I believe the Catholic Church has
descended from Christ via Peter and
its successors. I believe in all
its morals and the kind of faith
mirrored in its Saints. I want that
kind of faith. I identify with the
Early Church, not the reformation
churches. I understand it is not
by faith alone we can be saved but
through our sanctification with faith
through works. Gods wants all our
resources.
If we are not willing to die for
Christ — if we would deny Him
at a time to save our lives, we are
not worthy of Him. I want that kind
of courage and conviction of faith.
For that, I know I will need a lot
of God's grace!
I believe God can keep the Pope from
doing wrong in the doctrines of morals
and faith. He can do anything and
I have witnessed much personally.
I am not sure if there have been
Popes whom God allowed to do otherwise;
perhaps not. He has allowed some
priests, bishops, and cardinals
to act contrary to the faith and
morals found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
I have complete faith in God and
His Son, Jesus; and I believe His
Church, as He defines it, will be
here when Jesus comes back.
- Are these the kind of doubts
that keep one from receiving Holy
Communion?
- or, am I OK?
I went to a RCIA class, but left
because I did not want to derail
the faith of those present.
Everyone there, only appeared to
have a topical understanding of the
Church. They seemed to have already
made up their minds and would do
whatever was needed to belong.
I don't receive the Eucharist because
I do not want to sin in doing so.
I understand that I must believe
everything that is proposed by the
Church and I doubt some things. I
currently hang around the Church,
go to Mass on Sundays, and some days
during the week. It is a beautiful
worship service and I never knew
how meaningful each little thing
was. I have learned a lot.
I certainly do not know everything.
I have been dead wrong a lot in my
life, and especially on spiritual
matters; starting with Atheism, eventually
Hinduism, and lastly Protestant Evangelicalism.
- Could I go to the sacrament of
Confession and receive the Eucharist?
That was my original question. I
am the Catholic I was asking this
question for. It was not hypothetical.
A Deacon here told me I am Catholic,
just not a good one at this time
since I am not doing all I should
be. Seems almost like a Catch 22.
I will continue to pray for light,
faith, and trust. I guess I just don't
trust anyone, except God but Him,
I am afraid of, as much as anything.
Thank you,
God Bless!
Al
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Mary
Ann replied:
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Al,
If you have officially come into
the Church, by all means receive
the sacraments.
Doubts are doubts.
They are not refusals to believe.
Bring your doubts to the Lord.
You
say you have faith in the Church
as Church, as teacher of faith and
morals. All the sin and error in
lesser things just makes this gift
shine all the more brightly. If you
have not been accepted into the Church,
however, (you said you did not
finish RCIA, so I am not sure),
then don't receive the sacraments
until you make your official profession
of faith.
God bless. No worries.
Mary Ann
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John
replied:
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Dear Al,
You said:
I believe God can keep the Pope from
doing wrong in the doctrines of morals
and faith.
Not quite. The Holy Spirit protects
the Pope from teaching error in matters
of faith and morals
— when speaking as the universal
pastor and supreme pontiff — and
when speaking definitively.
This is called infallibility. The
Pope is not impeccable,
which would mean he can't do wrong
or sin.
Some Popes have been some of the
biggest sinners. Even St. Peter,
when visiting Antioch, violated his
own doctrinal declaration. In Acts
15, Peter gets up at the Jerusalem
Council and declares non-Jewish believers
in Christ didn't need to be circumcised.
That meant they didn't have to follow
the Mosaic Law (i.e.: Kosher Laws,
etc.) and that they were to be treated
equally with Jewish Christians yet
St. Paul tells us that when Peter
visited Antioch, he suddenly stopped
eating with the gentiles because
certain Jewish Christians were getting
offended. (Galatians 2)
Peter's Teaching was correct, yet
he broke the very same Teaching he
had pronounced.
As for your situation, in many ways
Al, you are a better Catholic than
many of the folks who sit in the
pew, who are never concerned, themselves,
if they actually submit to Church
doctrine. Your desire is to love,
serve, and obey the Lord. It's obvious
or you wouldn't be so concerned about
receiving Holy Communion in an unworthy
manner. It's natural to struggle
with doctrines but you've submitted
yourself to Christ and His Church.
If you can at least say:
- although you have doubts
- don't understand certain issues
- realize that you don't know
more than the Church
then you are fine. Your faith seeks
understanding and that's a good sign. Continue to receive our Lord in the
Eucharist.
God Bless you brother.
John
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