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Anonymous Albert wrote: |
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Good day Sir/Madam!
It has occurred to me that since God is omnipotent and omniscient everything that has ever happened and will ever happen since the beginning of creation is with His knowledge and consent. Every thought, every action, every placement of an electron is known by God and could have been changed in the beginning by Him if He so chose which means that all the sins of the world and all the righteous acts are also preordained. It means that God preordained who would be evil and damned to Hell and who would receive salvation. With this in mind, I am trying to understand why would God create us.
- Why would he put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden knowing full well it was going to be eaten from?
- Why would He make Man knowing full well He would punish it with a deluge?
- Why would He create Lucifer knowing full well that he would rebel?
- Why would He make His covenant with the Israelites knowing full well it would be broken?
- Why make Saul king knowing full well how he would turn out?
- Why did He make 12 tribes of Israel knowing full well 10 of them would be annihilated?
- Why did He make sin a thing that could be done?
- Why didn't He just create a perfect world free from sin, from suffering, and from death, if he had the power to and if knew how the world he created would turn out?
- Also how do we accept the fact that our loving God has predetermined that many would be damned, and they have no way of acting in any way contrary to damnation?
Albert—
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| { Why would God create us when everything he created since the start of creation was His Will? } |
Eric Replied:
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Albert,
The first part of your premise is correct, but the second part does not follow.
- Why do you believe that everything must be pre-ordained?
If I am in a blimp (or otherwise suspended) above an intersection in a city and see two cars that cannot see each other racing toward the intersection with obviously no mind for stopping, I can foresee that they will collide, but I do not cause that collision.
If I have a young child that I know well, I can foresee the things that child will do in certain circumstances, without pre-ordaining it.
If someone launches a ballistic missile, I can, knowing the parameters, foreknow where it will land, without pre-ordaining it.
- Why is it any different with God?
By the way, God does not pre-ordain anyone to go to Hell (that is, purely by God's sovereign choice) a matter of faith. All receive sufficient grace for salvation.
Eric |
Albert replied:
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Dear Eric,
Good afternoon,
The second part of my premise was not that God arbitrarily preordained some to Hell and some to Heaven, but that He, being all powerful and all knowing, decided since the beginning of time who would have faith in him and who would reject Him. I am arguing that is our faith not predetermined so is it not already decided whether we will choose salvation or not. This is based on the reasoning that God, controlling and knowing all things, should necessarily mean that free will should not be possible.
As to why it should be different with God it is because God is the Creator and is all knowing so He knows the exact spot down to the atom were the missile will land. He knows every second of the life of the child before it even happens and he knows for certain to the most micro of details whether and how the cars collide and unlike you, God can change all of this, at will as it all stems from all the series of events in creation.
Albert |
Eric Replied:
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Albert —
OK, I apologize for misrepresenting your argument, but I still don't understand why God's knowledge necessarily implies that our faith is "predetermined".
As Catholics, we do not believe that our faith is predetermined. God knows everything that happens, but does not determine whether we will reject salvation. In a certain sense, I'd argue that He accomplishes His will and purposes by employing the entirely free choices of rational beings. Think of our life of free choices as a puzzle piece or mosaic tile; He arranges them and fits them together to build the picture he wants from how we've decided we're going to live. We accomplish His will while remaining entirely free to do as we decide.
You say, "This is based on the reasoning that God controlling and knowing all things should necessarily mean that free will should not be possible." Yes, God knows all things. But God wills, that is controls things, in two ways:
- He wills some things positively,
- other things he allows or permits while not pre-determining them.
Consider the book of Job: Satan asks to test Job, and God permits it. God does not pre-determine that Satan will test Job, but he does allow it, for his greater glory.
Remember that God is outside of time. There is no "pre—" when it comes to God. Everything is Eternal Now. He looks at history all at once like a historical mural, or like a film that's been unrolled.
Eric |
Albert replied:
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Good afternoon. Eric —
I understand what you're saying but it still doesn't answer my original question of:
- Why would God bother with humanity if He knows that some will choose to reject Him?
- Why did He for example choose individuals who were going to turn away or chose to disobey him, like Saul for example, and
- Why would he choose to put the tree in the garden knowing full well that eventually Adam and Eve would sin and eat of the tree?
Albert
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Eric Replied:
Albert replied:
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Yes!
Thank you! The article has been very insightful and has answered questions that I've had.
Albert |
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